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Des
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 11:18 am:   

Dane Rudhyar once created an Astrological Mandala akin to I Ching: Sabian Symbols adapted for each degree of the zodiac.
Today the Sun is approximately in 10 degrees cancer and his Sabian Symbol for that is:
Phase 100
**A Large diamond in the first stages of the cutting process.**

Tomorrow, if I'm around, I'll give the symbol for 11 degrees Cancer.

Of course, all the planets are in different degrees of the Zodiac on each day with different Sabian Symbols for each one.

Anyone else interested generally in Astrology?
Its Synchronicity as opposed to cause-and-effect features?

I love looking at daily Planetary Transits in aspect to Natal planets.

Des
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des
Posted on Thursday, July 03, 2003 - 07:32 am:   

Today's Sabian Symbol (11 degrees Cancer) is:
A clown caricaturing well-known personalities.
Des
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Des
Posted on Friday, July 04, 2003 - 08:37 am:   

12 degrees Cancer
A Chinese woman nursing a baby whose aura reveals him to be the reincarnation of a great teacher.
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Des
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 02:46 am:   

Once, I was fortunate to collaborate on a few stories with Rhys Hughes. One of them (I forget the title but it was published somewhere, I think) was based on the Sabian Symbols for each degree of the zodiac of all the positionings of our Natal Planets in our respective Horoscopes!

Currently, I'm giving the Sabian Symbol for each day based on the Sun's position. Today is 13 degrees Cancer which gives:
"A hand with a prominent thumb is held out for study."

Des
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Des
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 03:28 am:   

Incidentally, if anyone wants to know the Sabian Symbols for each of the positions of the planets in their Birth Horoscope (and to know where those planets are indeed roughly positioned on the date of their birth), please let me know your birthday (plus, if possible, time and place of birth) to: dflewis48@hotmail.com (with 'egnis' as the subject).
Des
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KJ Bishop
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 11:35 am:   

Des,

I'm a Pisces with Moon in Scorpio - how could I not be interested in astrology?

But I've never heard of Sabian Symbols. Could you tell me what 'Sabian' means? Is the idea that you meditate on the symbol and see where it takes you?
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Des
Posted on Saturday, July 05, 2003 - 12:10 pm:   

I'm not sure of the meaning of the word 'Sabian' in this context, but Marc Edmund Jones (an astrologer in the twenties and thirties) and a clairvoyant friend formulated these symbols - and Dane Rudhyar later took them and reinterpreted them to emphasize their character as a cyclic and structured series of archetypal (a la Jung) meaning of 360 phases of human experience. (Cf. 360 degrees of the Zodiac). A *bit* like I Ching or Tarot. Having said that, my interest in them is more as a serendipitous approach to creative writing than superstition...
Though in the seventies I was very interested in Astrology (Synchronicity, *not* cause-and-effect) and had some astonishing results in casting horoscopes and collating planetary statistics vis a vis fantasy/sf/horror writers of the day based on their dates of birth in (I recall) a R Reginald encyclopaedia -- and the famous Donald H Tuck encyclopaedia of SF/fantasy fiction before 1968, which I still own. Des
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Des
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 12:26 am:   

"A very old man facing a vast dark space to the north east."
14 degrees Cancer
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KJ Bishop
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 01:30 pm:   

Des,

Another question. If the sun is 14 degrees Cancer in the Northern hemisphere, it's opposite to that down here where I am in the Southern hemisphere, isn't it? Or am I making that up?
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Des
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 02:15 pm:   

Well, the actual science of Astrology has always defeated me. I just know how to use the planetary ephemeris etc. and then analyse and synthesise - empirically - interpretations of the separate facets of the horoscope - as a theoretical exercise. I *think* the Sun is in approx 14 degrees Cancer today for the whole Earth as it moves through the circular Zodiac. Perhaps someone more versed in teh Science will put me right. (I haven't done proper Astrology since 1975 and I now use it for Creative writing purposes and Synchronicity).
Des
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KJ Bishop
Posted on Sunday, July 06, 2003 - 03:06 pm:   

Do you find, as it were, veins or channels of synchronicity that you can follow to good or at least interesting outcomes?

There's another thing, which isn't synchronicity, but a sort of play, which I like to do. This morning, for instance, I went out for jog, and on the way back I saw a chair on the pavement outside someone's house. It was clean enough, so I sat down on it there in the semi-dark for a while. Which is a slightly odd thing to do. But I find that sometimes, by doing something mildly strange, I can get myself and my life out of a groove. It's as if I'm introducing a random element, or changing the key in which the daily song is being played, and the world responds by sending something unusual my way. Sometimes those little deliberately odd acts can be the start of trails of synchronicity, too.
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Des
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 08:12 am:   

Most fascinating account, KJ.
Yes, to your first question, but it all may be fanciful stuff! I sometimes follow your 'method' above - surprising or challenging Destiny as it were - and the last time I *consciously* did something like it, the word 'Nemonymous' came to me unbidden. Whether that was a lucky event or not, the Jungian Jury is still out! ;-)

Anyway, today's Sabian Symbol (15 degrees Cancer):
"In a sumptuous dining hall, guests relax after partaking of a huge banquet."

Des
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KJ Bishop
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 12:24 pm:   

I also wonder if it is all fanciful stuff, but it seems to 'work' so often that I've decided to live as though it isn't fanciful - just for simplicity's sake! And at the next census I shall describe my occupation as 'Harmless Eccentric'.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who does the surprising Destiny thing.

That earlier question of mine about the southern hemisphere was a silly one - I was thinking of rising rigns, which do flip around like that (I think...)
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Anne S
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 04:27 pm:   

Des,

Thanks for the reminder about the Sabian Symbols, I have the book but haven't looked at it for years.

I am interested in Astrology myself, have been for quite some time, and therefore over the years have collected a few books on the subject, including the Sabian Symbols.
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Des
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 10:50 pm:   

Yes, Anne, Astrology can make sense and in fact it seems to make less logical sense to decry it! It is very understandable, I feel, that the universe goes in cycles, ones that can be empirically tested over centuries for comparative trends etc. for everything in that universe. Not cause-and-effect.

Yes, Sabian Symbols are, I feel, the 'literary' side of Astrology - living ideas for fiction etc based on the synchronicity mentioned above. they are described as the American 'I Ching', and, even though I'm British, I thought a modern electronic Message Board lent itself ideally to consideration of these on a daily basis - to see if there are recognizable trends in the direct, immediate electronic audience that may check in. Though I don't intend to post about it every day...!

My own horoscope of Natal plaets I cast in the seventies is etched on my mind as, later, were those planets' Sabian Symbols. Not superstition, but a mandala that seemed to make an inner sense. Also studying people's horoscopes make you think about those people more and what makes them tick. All good stuff for writers, I believe. I must get back to it some time!
Des
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Anne S
Posted on Monday, July 07, 2003 - 11:37 pm:   

Des,

Yes, Astrology in some way does help to understanding yourself and other people. I have noticed that certain times of the year affect me differently. Sometimes, extraordinary things are happening and I stop and think which sign the sun is occupying at the time and how that vibrates with my horoscope.

I have also noticed that when there are transport strikes or stoppages or even mild frequent frustrations getting from A to B, Mercury is retrograde.

It is a fascinating study which I first learnt, like you, back in 70s, and even though I pay it scant attention, I still relate it to everything.

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Des
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 07:46 am:   

Yes, we seem to have similar attitudes to Astrology, Anne. I still sometimes look at planetary transits... but I need to get a new ephemeris for current yeears. I've only got them up to 2000.

Today's Sabian Symbol for 16 degrees Cancer is:
"A man studying a mandala in front of him, with the help of a very ancient book."

Well, very early this morning, when I wrote above about a 'mandala', I honestly had no idea that the next symbol would include this word (since I've not been looking ahead).

Des
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Rhys
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 08:24 am:   

I've always found that knowledge of astrology is extremely useful for chatting up girls... So who cares if it's a science or not? It does the job! :-)
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Des
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 08:36 am:   

Hi, Rhys. Men and women only need to know about Sun Signs for flirting!! (Never worked for me, though).

Actually, I've suddenly wondered if the the collaborative story we wrote seven or eight years ago using, throughout it, our respective Sabian Symbols from our horoscopes is not the one very recently posted here:
http://www.dusksite.ukgo.com/article.php?51.255
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KJ Bishop
Posted on Tuesday, July 08, 2003 - 12:43 pm:   

Des,

Well, the day after I did the thing with the chair, a good thing happened to me. I had a story accepted for an anthology I was very much hoping to get into. Coincidence, or...?
I didn't sit on the chair with any exact intent, only a general intent for an improvement in my life.
(Maybe one acquires good karma not through virtue but through making the gods laugh...)

I have an idea about destiny, which is that causality exists, but is not absolute. I think that - perhaps - a person can live at the mercy of cause and effect, or can deliberately introduce elements of randomness and chaos, which stir the pot. Or maybe there are multiple parallel destinies, like waves in an ocean, and one can surf from one wave to another. Idle thoughts...
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Anne S
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 04:13 am:   

Des,

I managed to dig out from my bookshelf not one, but two Sabian Symbols books - Dane Rudger's "An Astrological Mandala" and Marc Edmond Jones "Sabian Symbols". I vaguely recall that there was a version with pictorial representations of the symbols but can't really be sure. Was there?

I also wanted to ask you if you have read CEO Carter's books on Astrology. I have always thought his interpretations were pretty spot on. Apparently he predicted the day and hour of his death accurately through Astrology. I'm not sure that I would want to know, even if I could work out how to do it.

Aah syncronicity.... It happens all the time. I remember once I was reading F Scott Fitzgerald's "The Last Tycoon" where the narrator mentions her dead sister. I was waiting for a train at the time. A woman who was waiting for the train as well (whom I vaguely knew) turned to me and said "Things have never been the same since my sister died" That's just one instance which has stuck with me, otherwise it just happens too frequently to remember each time. Are they a sign? One would like to think so, else why would they occur. I rather like the frisson I feel when it happens.
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Rhys
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 04:46 am:   

"Or maybe there are multiple parallel destinies, like waves in an ocean, and one can surf from one wave to another..."

That exactly what I believe. A phenomenal number of parallel universes in which every combination of every event is played out (in other words fixed destiny) but the ability of each consciousness to "surf" between them (in other words free will)... This just seems such a neat way of resolving the fate/free-will problem.

In some of those universes, astrology will be absolutely a real science. In others, not at all.
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Des
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 07:54 am:   

There are many such images of synchronicity, as-above-so-below, contrasted with templates of determinism ... and harmonics, alternate worlds, horary astrology, flirting (!) etc... evoked by Astrology. I feel it is a wondrous touchstone for writers of fiction and poetry and I really don't know why more of us are not interested in it. There is perhaps a prejudice about its superstitious or trivialising reputation (engendered mainly by Sun Sign 'Astrology' in newspapers) and many people who are Christian feel it has the aura of Wicca or something like that and others ignore the Synchronicity side and mistakenly feel it is alien to Free Will! But I feel the poetic/stylistic/Aesthetic side of the Sabian Symbols is a wonderful offshoot from Astrology for writers and artists, as are the creative harmonics of Astrology itself.. And KJ's, Anne's and Rhys's points above are reflective of all this.

Anne, believe it or not I started with Esoteric Astrology, in 1975, under the tutelage of Liz Green (who subsequently wrote a best-selling book on Sun Signs) - and this featured the writings of Alice Bailey which have more in keeping with Theosophy) and this was another 'accident' of Destiny because the course I had been due to attend regarding creative writing had been cancelled! Esoteric Astrology wasn't to my taste but it did spur my interest into mainstream Astrology - and I won't go into some of the results I had. I think my books were Alan Leo, Llewellyn George and others I've forgotten (not Carter).

I only have Rudhyar's book on Sabian Symbols, which I think is based on Marc Edmund Jones, and if he has different symbols to Rudhyar's on any day, perhaps put them here as a parallel, Anne ... which brings us back to those multitudinous waves of alternarity...!


Today (17 degrees cancer):
"The unfoldment of multilevel potentialities issuing from an original germ."
Des
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Des
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 08:30 am:   

Incidentally, if anyone would like their own personal set of Sabian Symbols based on the planetary positions (except for the fast-moving Moon) on the date they were born, then simply let me know your date of birth to dflewis48@hotmail.com (with 'egnis' as subject)... and whether I should list them here or privately to you. You can then, perhaps, write a poem based upon them...to post here??
Des
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KJ Bishop
Posted on Wednesday, July 09, 2003 - 11:23 pm:   

Rhys,

Oh, good! I wondered if I was getting odd, believing things like this. You might be odd too, I suppose; but it is nicer to be odd in company.

And I'm with you on the idea of astrology - or anything else - working in one universe and not in another. It's how I imagine miracles, aliens and other odd phenomena. Some people are either born in or manage to surf into a bandwidth where that stuff can happen.

Des - love that word 'alternarity' !
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Rhys
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:29 am:   

Oooh I want a list of Sabian Symbols please!

My date of birth is:

24 September 1966

I believe that my planet is Venus? Whatever that means!

Way cool!
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Des
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:42 am:   

Hi, Rhys, I'll give you these privately, as you have not said you want them publicised here! Actually, you had them before from me in 1996!
Des

PS: Today's Sabian Symbol (18 degrees Cancer):
A hen scratching the ground to find nourishment for her progeny.
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Anne S
Posted on Thursday, July 10, 2003 - 04:26 pm:   

Des,

I taught myself Astrology in 1976. I envy you under the tutelage of Liz Green. She wrote a wonderful book about Saturn "A New Look at an Old Devil" which I found consoling as my horoscope is awfully oppressed by that planet.
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Des
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 12:31 am:   

Saturn does not necessarily oppress my horoscope but I feel it may be the strongest planet there. Also Saturn is in my rising sign Leo (and in First House near the Ascendant degree) -- whilst Saturn happens to be the ruling planet of Capricorn where my Sun is positioned (Jan 18/1948 5.40pm GMT Essex, England)-- and the Sun happens to be the ruling panet of Leo .... and I have two grand trines in my chart and a strong Moon in Aries near the MC and .... !

Des
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Des
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 01:18 am:   

Today's Sabian Symbol (19 degrees Cancer):
A Priest performing a marriage ceremony.
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Anne S
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 03:10 am:   

You must be about my age Des, 1947ish. Saturn was in Leo when I was born as well. As I happen to be a Leo it is at 11 degrees Leo along with the Sun and Pluto. Heavy heavy stuff. I am rather pleased that I have a "finger of fate" configuration (quite rare) which involves my Leo planets and Neptune (Libra) with my moon (Pisces). But I have few kind configurations of the planets like grand trines and such. I don't really mind and have tended to sneer (gently) at people with kind aspects. Hard aspects make you fight to overcome them and become stronger in the process.

Still I am not as unfortunate as my older brother (deceased) who had a Grand Cross (all squares and oppositions) No wonder he died early!
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Des
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 03:28 am:   

Well, Anne, you can tell almost exactly when you were born from your clues above! I gave my date in the message above.
Pluto was almost exactly conjunct with my Rising Degree at the point of birth (approx 13 degrees Leo).
When I used to experiment with horoscopes years ago the weirdest or most striking charts I ever came across (except possibly my own ;-)) were those for Professor AJ Ayer and Teilard de Chardin.
Des
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Anne S
Posted on Friday, July 11, 2003 - 06:55 pm:   

Des,

I failed to read your message properly, humble apologies but it's been a frazzling week in all.

Can you guess my date of birth from these clues.

Sun 11 degrees Leo
Saturn 12 degrees Leo
Pluto 13 degrees Leo
Venus 3 degrees Leo
Mercury 22 degrees Cancer
Mars 23 degrees Gemini
Uranus 24 degrees Gemini
Moon 10 degrees Pisces
Jupiter 18 degrees Scorpio
Neptune 8 degrees Libra

It has been a long time since I've had a discussion on Astrology with someone else who has studied it. Very refreshing.Thanks!



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Des
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 12:40 am:   

4 August 1947 ?
I don't know if I said before - even though I was spurred by that 'accidental' Liz Green course about Esoteric Astrology, it already assumed a knowledge of mainstream Astrology : so I, too, taught myself.

Today's Sabian Symbol: (20 degrees Cancer)
Venetian Gondoliers giving a serenade.

Des
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Rhys
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 06:41 am:   

Dear Des!

Will you please consider working out a set of Sabian Symbols for one of my friends?

Her name is Caroline Moreira and her date of birth is:

21st October 1979

Her e-mail address is:

caroline@netbank.com.br

I told her you were able to work out Sabian Symbols and she's really interested and hopes you'll be able to work out hers, if you aren't too busy!

Pretty please?

Cheers!
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Des
Posted on Saturday, July 12, 2003 - 07:33 am:   

Of course, Rhys, your word is my compost. Des
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Des
Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 12:35 am:   

It seems to me that the Internet (that falls far short of ideal whenever it 'publishes' fiction to be read)-- is, as we all know here, wonderful for discussion and dissemination ... but also, I claim, for experiments in Synchronicity and Jungian Archetypes, the electronic Web itself being one huge Jungian sump or Tower of Babel that often crystallises into some sense of eccentrifugal brainstorming...
For example, we have just conducted an experiment on my the DFL forum thread (on Dusksite) where 4 of us picked eight words quite randomly ... then placing all eight in Google discovered that there was only one document containing all eight - a work of fiction by an unknown (to us) but very interesting-seeming writer. Yesterday, I wrote to him at the address given on the Internet and invited him to turn up on my forum -- which he duly has done! And the rest, as they say, will be history....

Today's Sabian Symbol (21 Degrees Cancer):
A famous singer is proving her virtuosity during an operatic performance.

Des

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Anne S
Posted on Sunday, July 13, 2003 - 04:26 pm:   

Des,

A pretty good guess, only out by a day. This is probably understandable as I neglected to mention I was born in the Southern Hemisphere. My DOB is 1.55 am 5 August 1947 in the New South Wales town of Wagga Wagga, Australia.

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Des
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 08:03 am:   

Thanks, Anne, at least you now share a birthday with my mother (5 August 1926)!

Today's Symbol (22 Cancer)
A young woman awaiting a sailboat.
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Anne S
Posted on Monday, July 14, 2003 - 06:59 pm:   

I am sure your mother is a very nice lady. I don't often meet 5 August people
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Des
Posted on Tuesday, July 15, 2003 - 07:40 am:   

Thanks, Anne.

As a separate point, I think I'll stop posting a daily Sabian Symbol after today - so if anyone wants one at any time, just let me know.

Today's (23 degrees Cancer) is:
The meeting of a literary society.

Des
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Rhys
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 03:39 am:   

Hi Des!

Thanks for working out those Sabian Symbols for my friend Caroline. Much appreciated!

She has asked me: what do they mean? I don't have a clue, so I thought I'd ask you if there is a particular way in which they should be interpreted?

Or are you supposed to just let your subconscious interpret them in the way you feel is right?
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Des
Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2003 - 07:51 am:   

I'd say the latter, Rhys. But I am just the scene setter and theatre manager for symbols and nameless ready-mades. I couldn't otherwise possibly comment. Des
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Des
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 07:38 am:   

Happy birthday, Anne.
Des
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Anne S
Posted on Tuesday, August 05, 2003 - 04:10 pm:   

Thanks Des, it wasn't a bad one. My library is enriched by a few new books.
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Dflewis
Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 04:32 am:   

Today's blog (Free Fiction):
http://www.weirdmonger.blogspot.com/
with Astrological repercussions!
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des lewis
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 08:14 am:   

If 'Zencore' is the new I CHING, it is also the new 'Sabian Symbols'.
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des lewis
Posted on Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 10:49 am:   

Today's sun sign is 23 degrees Leo which makes the Sabian Symbol for today:
IN A CIRCUS THE BAREBACK RIDER DISPLAYS HER DANGEROUS SKILL.
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des lewis
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 12:30 am:   

Today's Sabian Symbol (24 degrees Leo) is:

TOTALLY CONCENTRATED UPON INNER SPIRITUAL ATTAINMENT, A MAN IS SITTING IN A STATE OF COMPLETE NEGLECT OF BODILY APPEARANCE AND CLEANLINESS.
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des lewis
Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 03:35 am:   

The degrees of the Sun each day are approximate. I think the Sabian Symbols should be seen in rolling threes each day. So we already have the BAREBACK RIDER, THE UNKEMPT MAN and the third one is:
A LARGE CAMEL IS SEEN CROSSING A VAST AND FORBIDDING DESERT.

Tomorrow the BAREBACK RIDER will fall off, and a new Sabian Symbol replace it.

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