F&SF Circulation?

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Author Message   Rob Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:13 am:    I'm just curious, what is the circulation of F&SF? How many copies an issue are printed each month? How many subcribers are there?   David V Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 06:25 am:    PAID circulation is about 20,000. Asimov's is about 30,000 and Analog is about 40,000.   RobRoyH Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 11:11 am:    And to complete the story ROF's just published statement claimed 27,331. (I can supply that so exactly meerly because it is in my hands now as I read this... April, 2004... page 79... very small print! An excellent issue BTW.) Must be all those LOTR covers... LOL.   Chris Dodson Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 02:20 pm:    Is that ALL? I knew the magazines had fallen on hard times, but I had no idea the figures were THAT low. God, that's depressing.   RobRoyH Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 08:55 pm:    I'm suprised they're still so healthy. 25 years ago there were copies in every supermarket... and 25 years before that, (so I'm told), there were lage newstands in many different kinds of stores... copies of a half dozen titles could be found just a few steps away from just about every comercial area street corner. Now you gotta go out of your way to one of the big super bookstores and MAYBE they'll have a copy. I know... I know... the answer is to subscribe. I'll get around to it for F&SF... but I just got hit up for the Asimov's renewal... LOL.   Rob Darnell Posted on Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 11:33 pm:    I intend to subcribe to all of these professional publications as soon as I can afford it. I still have my only copy of a F&SF issue, one that I picked up at a bookstore in 1999.   A.R. Yngve Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 07:43 am:    But you can find Generic Fantasy novels, magazines and merchandise everywhere. We're living in the period that in the future will be referred to as "The Tolkien Bubble." ;-) -A.R.Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   Thomas R Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 08:13 pm:    You can be pleased the figures are so healthy if you wish to, but in fact they are quite bad. Add up Analog, FSF, and Asimov together you get maybe 10% of the circulation figures for the New Yorker. On the genre fronts I think Alfred Hitchcock or Ellery Queen each have more subscribers than those three SF/F magazines put together. Although the most recent figure I found was from 1998 which said "Ellery Queen, Alfred Hitchcock, and Mystery Scene have a combined monthly circulation of approximately 335,000." I doubt they are that high now, but those three would have had to shrink by 60% or more to be less than the figures given for those four F/SF zines.   Mary Travis Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 03:12 pm:    OK, I'm confused...if the paid circulation of F&SF is only 20,000, how come the classified ads page claims an ad placed there will reach 100,000 readers? And yes, I know that magazines assume more than one person in a household will read a magazine, but 5 per subscriber household? That seems high.   Traveller Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 05:21 pm:    Paid circulations is different than actual circulation...people pass around magazines to their friends, and most importantly, libraries subscribe to magazines.   A.R. Yngve Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 03:17 am:    Poor circulation may be connected to poor marketing. I understand that SF mags have meager marketing budgets... but there just might be ways to get around that. In the past, a publication like Asimov's could at least draw attention on the fame and (relatively speaking) high profile of Isaac Asimov himself. After Asimov, has any other American SF writer attempted to raise his public profile in a similar manner, for instance as a popularizer of science? Or has any TV/movie actor who's written SF done anything to attract attention to SF mags? Would it be possible to arrange a celebrity endorsement for The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction? (And I don't mean William Shatner. ;-)) Related suggestion: Maybe magazine editors could try to approach a known celebrity who writes, and encourage him/her to submit an SF story. (Yes, such contributions should be edited before publication. I don't expect famous people to automatically write great stories.) Failing that, one could always "do a Mel Gibson": publish stuff which causes enormous politico-religious controversy: "Next Month, F & SF reprints Michael Moorcock's BEHOLD THE MAN, the story which has been accused of blasphemy! Also in the same issue: Orson Scott Card's essay 'The Hypocrites of Homosexuality', an article sure to cause a storm of controversy." And failing that, the only recourse is to orchestrate a moral panic about "obscene sci-fi mags" on TV... ;-P -A.R.Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   mearls Posted on Monday, March 15, 2004 - 01:37 pm:    There's a lot of reasons why sales can fall. I work in the gaming industry (RPGs, with some wireless gaming (cellphone games) thrown in for good measure. First off, I am not a marketing guy, though I play one for the game company I work for in addition to writing and designing game material. So, keep in mind that everything I have to say is based on limited, practical experience. I don't have any formal training in marketing. The key problem facing any small publication that caters to a niche market lies in exposure. It's HARD to compete with the stuff that major movie studios and corporations push as the next big thing. In terms of mindshare, it's impossibly hard for a small company to get attention in the Barnes and Nobles and Borders of the world. One of the more difficult things about shopping at a bookstore is that it's hard for a publisher to make its products stand out without the help of the chain. Look at it this way: if you just look at the rows and rows of shelved books, they all tend to look the same without a shopper taking an active step to seek something out. I can't see a book's cover art or read its back blurb unless I make an effort to reach out and pull it off the shelf. However, if a book is placed on an end cap, or shelved face out, or labeled as a hot new release, or something similar, it has a big advantage in getting people to look at it. Instead of sitting there and hoping that a reader notices it, the book has help in drawing eyes towards it. Now, F&SF isn't a book. It's a magazine. I think this makes it even more difficult, since a lot of potential readers aren't going to make the pilgrimage to the periodicals section. In addition, there's a lot more noise on the periodical shelf to fight against: magazines printed in a larger format, those with flashier covers, and so on. The problem is that bookstores only have so many resources to allocate to pushing books, and they want to pick ones that give them the maximum return on investment. They're going to pick the stuff that gets a big marketing campaign from a publisher. IME in gaming, it's very difficult to get the attention of the major chains. From the numbers quoted to me from those in the know, RPGs do very well for bookstores. However, the chains still pretty much ignore them. Most chain bookstores don't stock the entry sets and basic rulebooks that a player needs, or the game books are mixed in with the graphic novels. The chains have more important things to do than worry about Dungeons & Dragons or GURPS, even though those books do well for them. I mean, the D&D Player's Handbook reaches the top 5, if not the #1 position, on Amazon.com when a new revision comes out. I imagine that if Wizards of the Coast, which also produces dozens of gaming novels every year, can't get the big chains' attention, a magazine like F&SF has even less a chance. The thing is, with the Internet you no longer need the retail gatekeepers. If you're worried about F&SF's circulation numbers, tell people about it. If you read a great story, talk about it on discussion boards. Give copies to friends, buy subscriptions as birthday and holiday gifts. Word of mouth is a very powerful tool. I wouldn't recommend just showing up on random boards and pitching a commercial for the magazine, but if you genuinely liked an issue, and can see how other people you know would enjoy it, tell them about it.   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 08:05 pm:    Mary Travis--- All sorts of attempts at funny responses to your note have crossed my mind, but the simple truth is that we've been running that note at the end of the classifieds for _years_ and it hasn't crossed my mind to change it. Thanks for pointing it out. And Mearls, thanks for the smart post. Wanted: 80,000 more readers like you.   bluejack Posted on Tuesday, March 16, 2004 - 11:55 pm:    Mearls, another thing you can do as a fan of a magazine is buy gift subscriptions for people who you think might like it. I think the magazine publishers should try to leverage their fan base a little more by encouraging this method of reaching new readers.   Iron James Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 10:10 am:    I don't know if it helps in any way or not, but a few months ago I started leaving copies of F&SF at such places as my doctor's office, the hospital waiting area and lobby, etc.   Jaye Lawrence Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 02:50 pm:    Another marketing idea: Science fiction novelists who also publish in F&SF could request that their published novels include a "bonus short story" at the end, reprinted from F&SF. With, of course, a handy subscription form included. Since many of the publishers advertise their titles in F&SF, it could be a you-scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours sort of deal. Is F&SF doing subscription drives at science fiction conventions? Or marketing to subscribers of similar magazines and/or magazines with a similar demographic? Is it sold in comic-book stores? Anybody who submits a story but isn't a subscriber should definitely get a subscription offer, and one should be included with the writer's guidelines too. I'd also look at offering current subscribers an automatic re-subscribe option, charged to their credit card annually unless they specifically ask to stop the subscription. You'd have to make it opt-in, of course, or people will get mad. But it could help prevent formerly loyal subscribers from drifting away through inertia, and you'd save money by not having to send those people repeated please-resubscribe notices. I've also wondered if the magazine would sell better in bookstores if it were displayed in the science fiction section of the store instead of (or in addition to) the magazine rack. Quite often my route through a bookstore is from the front door to the SF section to the checkout, without every going near the magazines.   ET Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 03:18 pm:    > Anybody who submits a story but isn't a subscriber should definitely get a subscription offer, and one should be included with the writer's guidelines too. Writers often resent getting any form of advertisement with a rejection. "Hey, I thought your story sucked, but why don't you subscribe to the magazine." While subscribing to the magazine could indeed help the writer get some idea of the editor's taste in stories, it still doesn't look good sending an offer with a rejection. That said, maybe you could have "near acceptances" of the form "I liked the story, but my inventory is full of great stories, and it didn't rise above them. However I'd like to offer you a $5 discount on a subscription as a token of my appreciation." Still, I don't think that it's writers who should be the main readership of a magazine.   Jaye Lawrence Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 04:21 pm:    Eek, no--I didn't suggest sending it *with* the rejection notice! That'd be tacky. Keep the two things entirely separate. But presumably writers of f&sf are also readers of it, so they're good prospects regardless of whether their work is accepted by the magazine or not. What marketers call a "highly qualified lead." And if those of us who love this genre enough to write it aren't subscribing...who will?   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 05:30 pm:    I thought it might be worth mentioning in the spirit of things, that on my bi-weekly visits to "Tower Books", I often find the issues of F&SF on the magazine stand placed in such a manner that they are completely covered up by the other "unmentionable" magazines of the genre, making it actually impossible for a casual observer or browser to spot them unless they go digging. So, when I see this happening, I pull out those issues of F&SF and put them in front, and slip the "others" behind. Just to see if this procedure has paid off, I've made a special trip on several occasions to the bookstore the next week, and to my delightful surprise, find maybe one or two of those issues of F&SF remaining, or totally sold out, and nearly the same number of those "unmentionables" still standing. Honest Injun! :-D ~ Alan ~   Jaye Lawrence Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 07:10 pm:    Hee hee...I've done that too, Alan. It's just too easy for the smaller-size mags to get buried behind the tall ones. Do you stop and help turtles across the road too?   AnthonyMurfet Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 07:23 pm:    Here in Canada our chain of bookstores "Chapters" has acquired small clear plastic magazine holders (at least in Vancouver) that appear designed for F&SF, Asimovs, Analog, et al. They sit in front of the other magazines on the floor. Highly visible and I swear they appear to be selling through more quickly. I visit often. I wonder if it is in fact true that sell-through has risen.. .. and more to the point, would the increased sales be readily noticed? Tony Murfet   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Wednesday, March 17, 2004 - 08:30 pm:    Jaye -- No to your question. But I do sometimes stop to properly bury road kill and say a few decent words. ;-) ~ Alan ~   mearls Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 12:09 am:    Gordon - I just started a reading group, and we've chosen F&SF as our monthly source of short fiction. That's at least 5 new readers right there. Only 79,995 more to go! - Mike   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 05:25 am:    Mike--- Thanks. I hope your group finds the magazine interesting. There's a reading group here in Hoboken that is scheduled to discuss FLOWERS FOR ALGERNON tonight. I was hoping to sit in on the event, just to see how many people in the group know that the novel originated as a short story in a science fiction magazine, but it doesn't look like I'll be able to get over there for the event.   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 05:32 am:    Jaye--- I think we've tried all the things in your useful post except for the automatic renewal option. Logistically, it might be tough for us to store and process all those credit card orders. Many people have lobbied for the chains to stock the SF/fantasy magazines in the SF/fantasy section of the store. And when they succeed, they generally get good results---but the chains just aren't set up to accommodate magazines the same way they handle books. The fact that our digest size makes us less visible on the newsstands has been noted many times before. Whenever anyone suggests that we go to 8-1/2" x 11", however, I always ask them: Which is more important? Keeping thousands of subscribers happy, some of whom have been content with the form since the 1950s? Or estranging them in order to sell another 2000-3000 copies on the newsstand? Tony Murfet, yes, our newsstand sales have improved over the past year in general. But it's a permanent struggle.   Charlie Finlay Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 05:43 am:    Alan, as a writer whose work appears in the magazine from time to time, I just want to say thanks for your street team effort.   Rob Darnell Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 01:13 pm:    I'd like to think it was the short sturdy look of F&SF that caused me to pick up my only copy of an issue back in '99. I'd never even heard of F&SF before that day. In fact, I chose it over Asimov's and Analog. I'll be a subcriber as soon as I can afford it. I'm pretty short on cash at the time.   Matt Hughes Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 01:44 pm:    I've begun to carry out my cunning plan of leaving copies in waiting rooms at doctor's offices and muffler shops.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 02:00 pm:    Not for praise, but for principle. "We Come Not to Praise Washington" (F&SF, August 2002 and in ONE LAMP: The Best Collected Alt. History Stories from F&SF, 2003), is among one of my all-time favorite alternate history stories. It was absolutely excellent, Charlie! :-) ~ Alan ~   Charlie Finlay Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 05:35 pm:    Thanks, Alan. That alone compensates for the $28+ I ran up in inter-library loan fines doing research for the story. Matt, if you can get people to read the magazine, they get hooked. I don't know how many times now I've given a copy to someone who told me "they used to read SF and kind of fell away from it in college." Next time I see them, they're asking me where to find it or to recommend more stuff to read.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Thursday, March 18, 2004 - 10:30 pm:    An idea just struck me, whether it be good or bad. Perhaps a "Lucky Scratcher" card, or something of this nature could be inserted in each issue of F&SF, like the subscription card is, for some sort of prize awarded each month to one lucky winner. Much the same as what the snack and beverage companies do, to increase sales of their items. Like I said, it was just an idea, with maybe "a little bit" of horse sense involved. ;-) ~ Alan ~   Matt Hughes Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:55 am:    It's fun coming up with ideas we'll never have to implement. Here's one from me. To increase newsstand sales, try this: start a new department, Celebrities Who Read SF. Each month, run a two-page feature in which the celeb du jour is interviewed about his/her favorite sf book, movie, whatever. Make sure there's a photo of the celeb on the cover (not the whole thing, just in a corner). You could get the copy from freelancers who are interviewing the names for other mags or just from the celebs' publicity agents. In the latter case, the copy would be free. A name-and-photo on the cover would attract the celeb's fans who might never otherwise peek inside the mag. Even selling to one-half of one per cent of some star's fans would skyrocket the newsstand sales. You could start out with Michael Jackson on Peter Pan. He must be desperate for coverage these days. Or maybe not -- we don't want some hicksville tv news outfit coming after F&SF the way they went at Asimov's. Or do we? I'm sure glad I'm not an editor who has to make these kinds of decisions.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 04:30 pm:    Matt -- Bruce Apar, Media Consultant, and former Editor for "Video Business" Magazine (1988 - 2000), who has spent his 25-year career writing and speaking about home entertainment and technology, did something quite similar to what you mentioned with his short-lived sister publication, "Home Viewer" magazine (It was a monthly publication much like the old "VIDEO" magazine and "Video Review" magazine were, on monthly reviews of new video releases, home entertainment equipment, etc.). For some reason, Bruce used one of Hollywood's most strangest, psychotic and demented character actor rogues of all, Dennis Hopper, to help promote his magazine, by having him being shown in its pages holding up a copy of a recent issue of "Home Viewer", and telling the reader what an informative magazine it was and how he just couldn't live without it. Like I said, the magazine didn't last too long. ;-) ~ Alan ~   S. Hamm Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 06:56 pm:    Matt, F&SF used to do something pretty close to what you're suggesting all through the 50's and well into the 60's. On the back cover there'd be a large blurb -- "People with IMAGINATION Read the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction!" -- and beside it, along the left edge, photos of half a dozen then-celebrities (Spring Byington, Clifton Fadiman, Arch Oboler, Gladys Swarthout, Sammy Kaye) with brief quotes explaining why F&SF was their favorite leisure reading. GUY LOMBARDO: "What I like most about The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction is the realization that the fiction I am now reading may very well be solid scientific fact ten years hence." LOUIS ARMSTRONG: "I believe The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction appeals to me because in it one finds refuge and release from everyday life. We are all little children at heart and find comfort in a dream world, and these episodes in the magazine encourage our building castles in space." EVA GABOR: "If you are looking for mature adventures in fiction, I would recommend to all discriminating readers The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction." (All quotes verbatim, of course.)   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 08:31 pm:    This may not be necessary, then again it may, but I would like to apologize if I might have offended anyone with either of my two recent posts on this thread. I picked up the gist of it, reading between the lines of Sam's post. And I've always admired Sam's spoken words. Unless I'm IMAGINING things, I just want to say that I'm very sorry, if I did indeed step on anyone's toes. ~ Alan ~   S. Hamm Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 09:31 pm:    Alan, I hope you're not worried about offending ME, because A) it just ain't that easy to do, and B) I can't find anything in your last couple of posts that the most delicate soul among us might construe as even marginally offensive. If you thought I was making fun of you with the celebrity F&SF endorsements, guess again. Those babies, believe it or not, are 100% bona fide -- I copied them word-for-word from moldy back issues of The Magazine. Including the Eva Gabor!   Matt Hughes Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:17 pm:    Ah, Eva! Always lingering, pale in Zsa Zsa's robust shadow, never able to claim the thespian pinnacles that might have been hers. And, no, I wasn't offended either.   S. Hamm Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:21 pm:    I wonder if Eddie Albert ever got to claim those thespian pinnacles.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:31 pm:    Sam -- I actually DID think that. You being offended, along with a few others Noticing that there weren't too many posts after the one I made last night, I thought I might have possibly said something wrong, but wasn't sure. Rather than stop like I should have after that, I took the chance of possibly keeping this thread going on the subject Matt was writing about. Then your post came, and I figured I'd done wrong, so I apologized to all. Thank you, so very much, Sam, for informing me I was IMAGINING things! ;-) ~ Alan ~   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Friday, March 19, 2004 - 10:35 pm:    And, thanks, Matt, too! ;-) Now we're ALL HAPPY! :-D ~ Alan ~   Matt Hughes Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 09:37 am:    "I wonder if Eddie Albert ever got to claim those thespian pinnacles." Not exclusively, I'm sure. My how this thread has wandered.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Saturday, March 20, 2004 - 01:00 pm:    Sam -- Being that it was somewhat late last night, and I was extremely exhausted, both physically as well as mentally from a week's worth of hammering away on the ol' rock pile, I wish to take this opportunity now because I was short on words then, to clarify myself a bit better, so as to not give you and others that impression that I blew a gasket, lost the oil, and threw a priceless operational gear. First of all, the post I made the other night suggesting an alternative method for increasing F&SF's circulation, was of course presented only as lighthearted humor, and by no means was meant to be taken seriously. But, you see I had no way of knowing that one way or the other, when I got home yesterday and saw that no more posts were made in this thread, other than Matt's. I assumed the silence was a result of my post, which someone out there might consider to be in bad taste. Like I said in my reply to yours last night, I really should have stopped right then and there, and waited until perhaps a few others had posted something else. But I didn't, and decided instead of recalling of the true incident with Bruce Apar's now defunct publication, which in a way put a proverbial dreary lid on Matt's idea. Once again, I really had no idea how Matt and any others would react to that, possibly offending them in some manner. Then you came along from out of the blue, which is not frequent enough for me, with your almost seeming complete wisdom of the entire universe, that I've always respected, putting a much brighter outlook on Matt's idea with the very interesting tales from "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction's" golden past. Well, I reckon I'm not as good as I thought I was at deciphering hidden messages between the lines of text. When I read your post and what I assumed was innuendo directed towards me in a polite way, I decided to apologize like I did, which as you have witnessed before your very eyes, was a VERY bad idea. :-( By the way, Sam, I was born in February of 1951, so I instantly recognized all of those babes and gentlemen you mentioned. ;-) Again, many thanks, Sam. And Matt, too. ;-) ~ Alan ~   A.R. Yngve Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 02:29 pm:    OK, if Louis Armstrong read the magazine once(and you're not pulling my leg)... then the current editor has no excuse for NOT asking his famous readers (if any exist today) for a nice quote. Imagine, as thought-experiment, the celebrity quotes that might adorn the back cover of Fantasy & Science Fiction in 2004: STEVEN SEAGAL: "I read F & SF because it stimulates my creativity, and creativity has been the main boosting factor in my career." DONALD TRUMP: "The visions of science fiction, to build new frontiers, new habitats in space, at exorbitant prices, will never cease to dazzle my imagination." Of course, the above quotes are completely imaginary and should not be taken seriously... ;-) -A.R. Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   Matt Hughes Posted on Monday, March 22, 2004 - 03:41 pm:    Nothing Seven Seagal or Donald Trump says should be taken seriously.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Tuesday, March 23, 2004 - 06:00 pm:    Nor even Rush Limbaugh! You know, I'm really glad to be informed that Ms. Eva Gabor was a reader of F&SF and had those very nice things to say about this wonderful magazine. And to think when I was a youngster, I had an enormous incurable crush on this grand beautiful lady. ~ Alan ~   A.R. Yngve Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 01:27 pm:    More imaginary celebrity quotes to sell the magazine: JOHN TRAVOLTA: "I buy Analog, because that's where L.Ron Hubbard first published his articles about Dianetics. Must... buy... all... the Master's... works! Must make movie of BATTLEFIELD EARTH! Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated!" (Oops, wrong magazine... ;-)) -A.R. Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 03:30 pm:    Hey, who cares! John Travolta is a turd anyway! ~ Alan ~   Iron James Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2004 - 01:01 pm:    Travolta, a turd? As a writer you should know better than to write such a thing as Travolta/turd. Good writer avoid redundancy.   Thomas R Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 09:02 pm:    Hmm would Analog want the Scientologists stumping for their magazine? They certainly are into ad campaigns and they certainly have a vast amount of money. On celebrities I remember Alan Arkin, or is it Adam Arkin, having a story in FSF I read. It was about a Randiesque skeptic meeting Jesus. Anyway he's not big anymore, but I think he does theater. So imagine "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction: The Broadway Musical" Or "Anthony Boucher, a Boulanger, and the Candle stick Maker: The Play" (I don't know "Candle Stick Maker" in French) Or err something.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Sunday, March 28, 2004 - 10:00 pm:    The following article appeared in the March 15, 2004 online edition of AdAge, which presents a grim look at the entire magazine circulation scenario, when examined under the cold light of reality. "A SPECIAL REPORT ON MAGAZINE CIRCULATION" http://www.adage.com/news.cms?newsId=40005 I just want to say that as a loyal and faithful subscriber to "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction", I am willing to do whatever I can to help support the increase in its circulation. I feel that I must, it's my duty, because it's my very favorite magazine. ~ Alan ~   A.R. Yngve Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 01:27 am:    I read the article, Alan, and it mentions something called "stampsheets" to sell magazine subscriptions. I can't the find the word in my dictionary. Are "stampsheets" the same as those subscription coupons I get in the mail? The "Subscribe Now To 'Braille Gardening Monhtly' and Save 5 Dollars" type? Publishers stopped sending out THOSE? What a bunch of morons! :-S A.R. Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 05:52 am:    A. R.--- I believe stampsheets specifically refer to the sort of subscriptions that were sold by Publishers Clearing House, the ones in which you tore off stamps and pasted them down for the magazines you wanted (or maybe you were entering a sweepstakes? The reply cards were kinda misleading in this regard, which is one reason why they're mostly out of business now). Alan, I can show you dozens of other articles about the perilous fate of magazines. Two years ago, the head of Hearst Publications said in regard to sales patterns, "Flat is the new up." Meaning that anyone whose sales are staying the same is doing well. I'm following all the discussion on this board (and elsewhere) about how to save the magazines and I'm grateful for all the feedback, ideas, and support, but I also need to say that the sky is not falling. We're still in business, and in fact 2003 was a better year for us than 2002. Call me an optimist, an idealist, or too much of an editor, but it seems to me that as long as we keep coming up with stories you can't find elsewhere, we'll get by. And by the way, Sam, I've been making notes for a new variation on the back-cover ads from the 1950s, the ones with blurbs from Spring Byington and Louis Armstrong. But it will be a while before I'm ready to roll it out. I don't have the connections in the entertainment world that Boucher had, but I do have something cooking on the back burner.   Patrick Samphire Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 06:10 am:    Good luck to you, Gordon. We'd all love to see the subscriptions up. One thing, though. In the UK, I can't buy F&SF in Borders, but I can get Asimov's, Analog and the British zines. I don't expect the overseas market is a particularly profitable one, but there really is no exposure for F&SF here.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 06:15 pm:    Gordon -- Just so you never think otherwise (at least from this happy reader, anyway), in my honest-to-God opinion, you are doing an absolutely, most extraordinary job at the helm of the prestigious publication, "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction". ...And I salute you, pal! I shall always be a very staunch supporter of yours. Press on, with the flagship, Mr. Van Gelder! ;-) ~ Alan ~   Jaye Lawrence Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2004 - 07:54 pm:    Here, here! And if each of us gives at least one or two gift subscriptions this year...   Charlie Finlay Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 04:25 pm:    Jaye, I enjoyed "Kissing Frogs" in the May issue. I thought I knew where it was going, and was entertained, but then it took a nice and, to me, unexpected twist. I suspect that word-of-mouth is always the most effecitve form of advertising for any book or magazine. Unfortunately, it requires readers genuinely caring enough to go out and get it in the hands of their friends with similar interests, and it's hard to organize or plan that sort of thing. Or measure its success.   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2004 - 05:00 pm:    Gordon -- Now I don't expect you to take this into serious consideration, since I wouldn't want to be held responsible for being that "ornery hombre" who put the heavy burden on you with more work than any human can endure, with his so-called "brilliant idea". ( :-) ) Besides, I haven't the foggiest idea if "Spilogale, Inc.", now being the parent publishing company under your ownership (as opposed to past owner, Edward L. Ferman's "Mercury Press"), still retains the rights of ownership to the title of "Fantasy & Science Fiction's" old sister publication, "Venture Science Fiction". But, for the sake of tossing another suggestion into the proverbial hat to maybe help increase F&SF circulation, here is another idea on which to ponder. Since actual scientists, Gregory Benford and Pat Murphy & Paul Doherty's Science column's have been among one of the very favorite features in the pages of F&SF over the years with readers, suppose they, along with other such prominent science writer's as Ben Bova, David Brin, Geoffrey Landis, George Zebrowsky, Catherine Asaro, and others, were to have their own (maybe quarterly) magazine to contribute to, by resurrecting "Venture" with a slight change to its title, to be known as "Venture Science", and with an entirely new format from the old, of strictly news articles and stories on science and the future? You could even include reprints of Isaac Asimov's popular science essay columns that were featured in "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction" years ago? In this new magazine on science fact, you could then advertise F&SF and reach a wider audience from the science community. Like I said, Gordon, this is just another suggestive idea from a percolating think tank. I know nothing about the publishing business. ;-) ~ Alan ~   RobRoyH Posted on Friday, April 02, 2004 - 02:43 pm:    An interesting idea... I used to subscribe to "Discovery" magazine. As a cheap trial balloon... you might want to see what results you get from a subscription ad in there or one of the other general science magazines.   A.R. Yngve Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 07:50 am:    Hey... if anyone's been an "ornery hombre" on the editor, it's me. I promise to put up free illustrated ad-banners for F&SF, Analog, AND Asimov's on my homepage -- by the end of today... I'll start PhotoShopping them right away! Hang in there, Mr. Van Gelder. A.R. Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   A.R. Yngve Posted on Sunday, April 04, 2004 - 08:23 am:    Done! I've borrowed the current cover images from each of the three mags, with a prompt to visit the magazine sites and "Buy These Magazines!" http://yngve.bravehost.com/links.html Other readers who've got websites of their own, please do the same. -A.R. Yngve   Michael Samerdyke Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 08:28 am:    A possible way to boost subscriptions is to see what colleges offer a class in science fiction. Next, contact the profs that teach these classes, and make issues of the magazine available to the classes. (So the students can see where the genre is now as opposed to the days of Campbell, etc.)   Andrew Nicolle Posted on Monday, April 05, 2004 - 06:37 pm:    Has a direct marketing campaign been tried with the SF mags? This would be a good way to net new subscribers, although it is probably quite costly. I've been learning all about copywriting and it sounds like a good way to bring in business. The letter Gordon sends out for subscription renewals seemed quite effective, so it'd be interesting to see how well a decent sales letter targeted at SF and science publication readers would fare.   A.R. Yngve Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 02:53 am:    It's sad that spammers have ruined the concept of direct marketing by e-mail. Otherwise the magazine could have done it at a very low cost... -A.R. Yngve   John Klima Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 08:26 am:    Michael: In addition to your idea of college classes about science fiction, it might be useful to pursue creative writing departments. I know that many such departments can have a poor opinion of genre fiction in general, but F&SF publishes some really fascinating stuff. The tough part is actually having something in the issue relate to what the professor is trying to teach. You may hit a spate of six or ten issues that have nothing to illustrate the point the professor wants and then have five in a row that all work but the class is done. And, it's tough to use back issues since there's a limited supply with really no good means to reprint, unlike a book. JK   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 06:00 pm:    This is an actual true story... Just to demonstrate my sincere commitment and enthusiastic goodwill and support for a magazine I so dearly love, today, after work, I decided to go visit one of my aunts who is 93 years old and living in a Convalescent Home. On the way there, I stopped off at a Borders Bookstore, went inside, and with only one purpose in mind, I bought 2 copies of the May 2004 issue of "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction". Once outside, I walked a few doors down from the bookstore at this complete shopping center with tremendous activity from folks both going into and coming out of shops selling everything from soup to nuts, to a Florist Shop, and purchased a small bouquet of long-stemmed red roses in a small vase to give to my aunt. From there, I hopped into my pickup truck and sped off on my merry way, leaving a trail of billowing dust, fluttering leaves, flying roadside gravel that had worked itself onto the roadway, and pollutant fumes of toxic exhaust which stings the eyes, behind me, taking all cautionary measures to ensure my safety and the safety of others by paying close attention and obeying all traffic signals, pedestrian crossings, bicycle paths, and posted speed limit signs. Upon my arrival at the Convalescent Home, I found a nice place to park, got out of my truck to straighten out my bones, then grabbed both the bouquet of roses and one of the copies of F&SF. With both hands firmly grasping something of great importance, I walked inside the complex through the automatic double doors. I passed through the lounge area which has several tables and chairs, sofa's, a TV, etc., and glancing around I saw a few senior ladies and gentlemen present, taking it "real easy", as you might say. I set the copy of the magazine on one of the tables with no one paying me no mind and then continued on to the room where my aunt is. After giving her the flowers and spending a grand time with her, I left, saying my sweet goodbye's and passed through the lounge area once again on my way out. I swear to you on a stack of Bibles, to my utterly delightful surprise, a woman, whom I would guesstimate was somewhere in her 80's, was sitting there at the same table that I had place the magazine on, and she was totally engrossed in its pages. As I walked by her, I smiled, she looked up, also returning a lovely and happy smile, and I went on my way out to my truck, happily whistling. I felt good. From the Convalescent Home, I went to the Barber Shop to get me a haircut. Yes, following the same game plan as did Matt, I parked my truck, grabbed the other copy of F&SF, and went into the Barber Shop. I placed the magazine on the small table with the rest of the magazines and a newspaper, and had a seat while I waited. While getting my haircut, two teenage boys walked in, and had a seat while they too, waited. While one of them squirmed on his chair, trying to find a nice comfortable spot on its lumpy seat cushion, I saw the other boy going through the magazines on the table to find something exciting to read to pass the time away, while he waited. Yep, you guessed it! He picked up that May issue of F&SF and started thumbing through its pages. Watching him carefully and with great interest, I saw him turn to the page and begin to read Gordon's Editorial on the letter-writing campaign for an Asimov commemorative postage stamp. Hooray, Gordon! Naturally, of course, he knew what to read first! When I left the Barber Shop, this boy was still sitting there reading, mesmerized by the magic placed upon him by the pages of the fantastic. Hopping into my pickup, I sped off for home, merrily whistling a happy tune, and leaving another trail of billowing dust, fluttering leaves, flying roadside gravel that had worked itself onto the roadway, and pollutant fumes of toxic exhaust which stings the eyes, behind me... ~ Alan ~   Rob Darnell Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 07:25 pm:    I see the headlines: "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction mysteriously placed on waiting room tables, captures unexpecting readers by the throat. Is it an act of terrorism?"   A.R. Yngve Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 05:00 am:    God bless Alan T. Sippola. Happy Easter! -A.R. Yngve http://yngve.bravehost.com   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 07:06 am:    Alan--- I can't tell you how impressed I am---those results are impressive. Thank you! Now I'm thinking maybe we should start printing copies with a message on the cover like "Look inside this issue for the hidden five dollar bill." Though your results suggest we don't need to use that gimmick.   Andrew Nicolle Posted on Wednesday, April 07, 2004 - 05:26 pm:    That gimmick sounds like what a car survey company sends us every once in awhile - a survey, along with an accompanying one-dollar bill. I've filled it out every time   Alan T. Sippola Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 09:00 am:    Gordon -- A wink is as good as a nod to a thoroughbred. You don't need to thank me. I didn't perform any miraculous heroic act. Nothing that any other highly supportive reader of yours would do in order to help "spread the word" to others about your absolutely spectacular magazine of the fantastical. There are only three kinds of people in this world: Those who lead; Those who follow; and those who just stand on the sides to watch. I'm just a very firm believer in the "Golden Rule", and someone who will fight to no end, for a worthy cause. I will continue with my crusade to support F&SF to the best of my ability. Happy Easter, to you, Gordon, and your family! Happy Easter, to you, A.R., and your family! ...And God Bless! ~ Alan ~   Thomas R Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2004 - 12:49 am:    Alan that was very sweet. I think I'm more impressed by the fact you did something nice for the elderly than anything. I might ask the nursing home here if anyone of their residents likes the kind of stuff FSF publishes. The home here tries to be as positive as possible, but it's still often a sad environment. I left an old issue at the Campus Center. I hope it finds a good home, but I admit I don't know if it will. Happy Easter!   Byron Bailey Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 08:54 pm:    I'm trying to figure out how to make money on the internet and have some advice that might be relevant. First, what you need to do is figure out how to drive internet traffic to your site and make sure the site is likely to sell. One problem--I hate to say it--is that the site as currently is would hold very little interest to someone not already well-versed in the field. Not many Harry potter fans would be interested. For example, "Compelling short stories and novellas by writers such as Ray Bradbury, Ben Bova, Ursula K. Le Guin, Esther M. Friesner, Terry Bisson and many others." The noninitiate might very well not know nor care about any of these names. "The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction, founded in 1949, is the award-winning SF magazine which is the original publisher of SF classics like Stephen King's Dark Tower, Daniel Keyes's Flowers for Algernon, and Walter M. Miller's A Canticle for Leibowitz." To a younger audience fed on Harry Potter, Star wars, etc, emphasizing classic rather than exciting won't likely bring in a lot of interest, either. For me, the webpage works but I think I'm in a dwindling minority. It won't work for most people, I suspect.   Byron Bailey Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 09:04 pm:    Has anyone done or thought about creating an affiliate system for F&SF? Create a system where people can make $6-10 commision for each subsciption that they sell. Get a little greed involved, you have potentially 27,000 or so people willing to push your product off on friends, family, associates, neighbors, people on the street, etc. It might be possible to do it over the internet where people can make mini websites setting the mood for a sale and then link to this site (which currently is geared towards a very narrow audience). It might be a way to get past the lack of stamp books.   Byron Bailey Posted on Friday, June 04, 2004 - 06:26 pm:    One thing I've noticed in doing a little internet research is that the marketing for almost all of the SF magazines aren't making very effective use of google adwords. With google adwords, you create a small, three line add that links to a webpage of your choice. You pay a certain amount each time someone clicks on your add. Advertisers basically bid on the keywords that you want to use. Some of the highly contested keywords sell for as much as $13.00 a click. However, most of the keywords related to SF magazines and stories don't have much competition, allowing a first page spot to be aquired for only $.05 a click. It seems cheaper to me than mailings. I did notice that there were a few sites that were advertising that did sell subscriptions to F&SF as well as other magazines. But I'm sorry to say that they didn't seem to be doing a great job at it. Most of them were just a blurb for the magazine mixed in with a bunch of other adds for other magazines. That's generally not a very effective way to make a sale. (Having these kinds of adds with multiple magazines can be effective if you do something like an individual and personal critique of each magazine. What you need to avoid at all costs, though, is the impression that you're just pimping off a bunch of magazines for the sake of money. In short, you have to first prove you have valuable knowledge about these magazines. Once your knowlege is established, the potential customer is more willing to listen to your recommendations). If you did use google adwords, one of the more effective techniques would probably be to have your google add link to a small webpage written from a personal perspective, maybe with a headline like "The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction Brought the Magic back to my Life." Then have the writer explain how he lost that magic of life through work and then managed to gain it back through reading the magazine. Don't try to sell the product but just get the customer in the mood to buy. (I'm not saying lie, by the way. I honestly don't think it would take much effort to find people who F&SF made a difference in their lives and then rewrite their story in an engaging manner). Then once the potential customer is in the mood to look more at the magazine, provide a link to this site. In an earlier post, I mentioned how I didn't think that the F&SF website would do much to attract Harry Potter Fans fans, for example. (The site is good. It just appeals to a limited audience). Having a mini webpage written from the perspective of a Harry Potter fan who got hooked on F&SF might get Harry Potter fans willing to buy from the F&SF website without having to change the website itself. One great thing about google adwords, is you don't necessarily have to spend a lot of money to get started. Setting up an account only costs $5.00 and once you set up an account, you don't have to set up new accounts to try to sell different products. You just have to pay for the clicks. Furthermore, you can put a maximum daily amount you're willing to spend and google will simply shut off your add until the next day once you reach that limit. The daily limit can be as low as $.25 (or less) or as high as thousands of dollars. Furthermore, you can delete your add, pause your add or change your add anytime you choose. Consequently, you're not locked into paying indefinitely for a lemon. You're not going to loose a lot of money on google if you monitor what you're doing. If you're spending more on clicks than you're making, simply shut the add down until you can either change it so that it may sell better or until you decide it's not worth the time. You have an immense amount of control with google that you don't have with other options. For example, can you spend money for 300 letters of a letter campaign, decide it's not working and then simply stop the campaign?   J.P. Posted on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 12:48 pm:    I don't know if this thread has unwound all the way yet but I have an idea. I've had great luck with fund-raising before by involving schools and although this is a bit different, the idea is the same. Maybe there could be a quarterly story published by a high school student called: Science Experiment. They would be required to write a fictional spin-off of any science experiment they have been involved with. A certificate could be sent to the school to the science teacher to present to the student. The submissions would require the address of the school in addition to the science teacher's name. There is so much enthusiasm out there among those nutty teenagers. I know, I have some. For what it's worth? J.P.   J.P. Posted on Monday, June 14, 2004 - 01:22 pm:    Okay, to get my brain to shut up, I'll finish my idea. Two things; so it wouldn't appear as a promotional stunt to get students to read F&SF, the award could be promoted as "Scientist of the Future" in an effort to encourage young people to fulfill the promise of what they read in Science Fiction and all that. The thing that would probably make this work would be to publish the name of the school and the science teacher maybe with a brief bio about him/her so all the teachers would encourage their students to enter. Once a year would probably be more realistic and give a better chance at a quality story; which the science teacher would probably be helping polish. So there's my idea, if this thread ain't dead. JP   whizbang!! Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 11:21 am:    Gentlemen: Could it be that circulation is low because the contents do not attract the casual reader? I have known about FSF since the early '50's, and when I bought an issue I rarely found the longer stories yielding enough intellectual value to bother with. The merits of a volume by Flaubert, Nobokov, Fitzgerald, etc. keep me reading late into the night. I doze off shortly after beginning the average FSF story. Fellows, we only have so many heartbeats, and we should spend them wisely. Rarely do I read a paragraph in FSF and think to myself, "I will remember this." And I don't. The stuff simply is not that great. What might drive some of the steady raeders is the Ted White Dictum: "There are about 20,000 peole who will buy anything!" What might also might motivate the fan to buy is the "allegience bias", from which is derived the feeling of joy in holding the magazine in one's hand, rather than admiring its contents. If this any consolation, the other (now extinct) magazines were dreadful. One benefit I recently derived from FSF was a mention of, "They Girl on the Swing," which I found on Amazon and enjoyed immensely. Thanks.   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Tuesday, June 29, 2004 - 01:51 pm:    Whizbang--- I was just thinking that it has been a while since we've gotten a letter like your posting here. The last one I recall was from a reader who sent a venomous letter accusing us of having lost all sense of wonder and nothing he's read in F&SF has lit his fire and that's why we're going out of business. So I asked him what was the last story he read that did light his fire and he replied with a Harlan Ellison story from the 1970s. I mention this other instance not to draw a one-to-one correlation with your experience, but in hopes of making a larger point. If I'm doing my job right, then readers get different things out of different issues of F&SF. We can't please everyone, but we do hope to have enough diversity to satisfy a variety of readers. Magazines sometimes function as mirrors for reflecting a reader's own protocols, passions, and tastes. In the case of the guy who hadn't read a story that lit his fire in more than twenty years, I think F&SF reflected back to him something he had lost from his youth (or rather, F&SF failed to reflect that back to him). In your case, I wonder if the "intellectual value" you're seeking isn't the joy of a finely-tuned paragraph as much as anything else. And I think we have provided some stories that would scratch that particular itch---some of Lucius Shepard's stories, and Jeffrey Ford's "Something by the Sea," and maybe M. John Harrison's "Suicide Coast"---but on the whole, if you're looking for the next Flaubert or Nabokov in F&SF, you're looking in the wrong place. To my way of thinking, those two writers are virtually anti-genre writers. Among the virtues of story spelled out by Aristotle, I'm sure Flaubert and Nabokov would have ranked spectacle last (as did Aristotle). But for me, as a reader and consequently as an editor, I rank it much higher. (Also, did either Flaubert or Nabokov write much short fiction? I think of them primarily as novelists.) Which means that if the intellectual value you're seeking is subtle insights of character, you're less likely to find them in F&SF than you're apt to find a story with some conceptual pizzazz to it (such as, say, Paolo Bacigalupi's recent "People of Sand and Slag"). If I'm correct in my assumptions and guesses here, you can probably find more of what you're looking for in THE NEW YORKER or several other magazines. But blaming our circulation problems on not typically providing the intellectual merits of a volume of Flaubert sounds like it's saying a monkey wouldn't be as vulnerable to predators if it were an elephant. We're different beasts, we have different virtues, and I'm convinced that there are enough readers who like the kind of monkey business I provide to keep on publishing it.   whizbang Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 03:42 pm:    Dear F&SF: Thanks for the reply. Sorry about the typos - nothing like writing a somewhat "snooty" sounding letter including a few misspellings to undermine all the other content. I accept all of your points as valid. I always pick up your magazine and thumb through it. I read a few paragraphs, "to get the drift". Most often I put it down. The covers are nice. A year or so ago I held onto one issue in which you ran a story (title forgotten, sorry) about a fellow who meets a girl, "a mermaid who swims in the sea of time". Then I was reading Jung regarding the archetype, the Anima as part of a hobby project. The story struck me as perfectly enchanting. The concept appealed to me, as you noted. Should I buy all issues just to keep up the possiblility of another "gem" glittering within? Even in the case of these "gems" which do appear I feel haunted by the feeling I should read an author listed in Bloom's, "Genius". In our mindless society (in his view), "genius" is much diminished. May I say, I have read and reread paragraphs by the authors listed earlier capable of "absorbing me completely", and filling me moments of epiphany I have found nowhere else. I am enriched through the amplification of my own generative spirit. Material of this caliber cannot be generated quickly enough to fill magazines on a monthly basis. There are simply not enough brains given enough time to generate this quantity. I do not expect it in F&SF....I wanted to tell you why I do not buy it regularly, that is all. Some years ago I valiantly bought SF magazines and tried to read them....I bought them, but could't read them. Finally, I ended up with boxes of them and the question: "Why did I ever buy them?" Answer: My favorite uncle bought them, and I saw them in his home. I thought they must be good because he liked them. Hmmph! Well! I harbor no ill will. I am happy to see F&SF on the stands. I hope you go on forever finding enough readers to support the kind of fiction it represents. Thank you for responding to my message...   John Joseph Adams Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 06:39 am:    Whizbang, I believe the mermaid story you're referring to is "Our Friend Electricity" by Ron Wolfe (June 2002).   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 06:20 pm:    Whizbang--- Thank you for clarifying your point---now I understand what you meant originally. However, I disagree with your initial point. I think you're considering yourself to be the average casual reader, when it sounds to me like you're more of a connoisseur of literature than the average reader. Occasionally I compare fiction magazines with radio stations and I think that comparison is useful here. We try to play a pleasing mix of pop tunes. You sound like you're looking for more of a classical station, but based on everything I saw in twelve years of working in book publishing, I suspect that any such station would have far worse commercial problems than we've got.   Pat M. Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 07:17 pm:    Gordon, Interesting that you would use Pop to describe yourself, when you have been quoted as saying that you believe that SF should be challenging. I would take that to be more of an Alternative music than Pop which tends to have about 3-9 themes to all songs. 1. I'm Hot 2. Your Hot 3. I love her 4. she loves me 5. She hates me 6. Look at me dance 7. listen to the music 8. No point to this song but it has a good beat. 9. ... I think you have much more range than Pop music. I'm not saying that Pop is bad, but not necessarily the best analogy here. Pop would be space opera I think. -Pat M.   TCO Posted on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 04:17 am:    Gordon, I think you are right about Wizbang being into classical music. But one part of his message strikes home. The part about buying the mags but never reading them. About no liking that many of the stories. This is a common feeling I expect among those who drop the magazine. And it's not about prefering classical. It's about not wanting to buy an album that only has one catchy tune.   Gordon Van Gelder Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 04:55 am:    TCO--- I hear exactly what you're saying, but the only airtight solution to the problem---and I don't mean this to sound flip---is for each disapponted reader to start her or his own magazine. Otherwise, there's no way to guarantee a 100% success rate. (A few years ago, Harlan Ellison sent me a notecard I keep above my desk: "Frustra laborat qui omnibus placere studet" -- He labors in vain who tries to please everyone.) On a more practical level, since I don't think many people actually want to run magazines, what I try to do is maintain a balance of high-quality material of different sorts---some SF, some fantasy, some horror. I have no way of knowing how any individual story will be received by any individual reader, but I try to gauge general reactions and I try to keep the mix interesting. If it's not interesting to readers, then I suppose the only reason for people who don't like most of the stories to keep reading is in hopes of hitting the lottery and getting one story that pays off big. But since I can't tell in advance if that one big payoff story will be Brad Denton's "Sgt. Chip," one of Richard Chwedyk's saur stories, an Esther Friesner light fantasy, or one of M. Rickert's literary pieces, I just keep publishing them all, gauge reactions, and continue experimenting.   TCO Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 06:58 am:    It's cool, I'm just thinking out loud. I just think that (for that reason), lots of people prefer anthologies. I'm not sure what the business answer here is. Personally, I am very price indifferent, I buy stuff all the time at Borders. But I really get sick of bringing stuff home and not liking it. I resent the wasted time in trying to wade through something if it does not appeal to me. Even if I stop half-way. I expect there are lots of people like me. Maybe Heinlein (the editor-upsetting bastard) was right. Six packs never fail to deliver.   John Boland Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 03:19 pm:    I guess this thread ran its course. The sad thing about these circulation numbers is that the downward trend is probably intact. People just don't read short stories the way they used to. I won't bother to rattle off the magazines that used to run a fair amount of short fiction but don't (or have vanished). How many big publishers want to do a collection of short stories that aren't by Stephen King? One earlier comment that certainly rang true with me is the fondling pleasure of buying a magazine vs. the reading pleasure (I'm paraphrasing). I think of all the old issues of Galaxy, IF, F&SF, AHMM, Analog that I have boxed away, that I browsed with pleasure but read at most a couple of stories from each issue. It's not that they're not good stories in many cases; by accident I read "Rocket Boy" in a recent F&SF and found it intelligent and moving. But my habits and I think those of many other readers have changed. For entertainment, I'll stoop to a Stuart Woods. (Blush.)   EDatlow Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 07:48 pm:    Plenty. Tor has published many single author collections including those by Gene Wolfe and Greg Bear in the last year or so. Ace just published a collection by John Varley. Harcourt publishes collections by Ursule K. LeGuin.   Neal Stanifer Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 05:00 pm:    Ellen, thanks for reminding me about the Gene Wolfe collection. I'm building my reading list for after my qualifying exams, and I had left that one off. The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories remains one of my favorite collections, though Blaylock's 13 Phantasms comes pretty close. Personally, I still often prefer a short story collection (single-author or otherwise) to many novels. I've read quite a few novels I didn't think merited the length, in which the author couldn't sustain the pace or in which he or she just didn't have enough to say about the subject.   TCO Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 09:08 pm:    That's because nowadays things are bloated. Gets even worse when it is a series. Kill those trees!!!   Jeffrey J. Lyons Posted on Monday, June 20, 2005 - 06:22 pm:    I was surprised to stumble across a couple copies of the July-August '05 Analog in my local Rite Aid drug store. The SF mags never are available there. Book stores yes but not drug stores. This was a first.

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