Dark Movies Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Register | Edit Profile

HOME | CATALOG | DOWNLOADS | LINKS | EDITORIALS | DISCUSSION | CONTACT

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Log Out | Edit Profile | Register
Night Shade Message Boards » Shepard, Lucius » Dark Movies « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:12 am:   

I'm messing around with a review of "Spider" and I got to thinking that a great majority of the movies I like or that interest me would either be labeled dark or depressing. I usually have to dig around on DVD sites or hit festivals to find a lot of the ones that I really enjoy. Probably the best thing I've seen lately is the Korean Film "Bad Guy," concerning a pimp's
psychological destruction of a young college girl. it's currently playing the Seattle Film Festival and is available on region 3 DVD from sites like Poker Industries and asiafilm. It's an amazing piece of work. Another film of this sort, one I'm not sure I'd recommend, because I'm not sure I'd want to see it again myself (I will watch "Bad Guy" again), is the French film, "Irreversible," which uses a Memento-style narration to tell the story of a brutal rape. The film spurred a lot of walk-outs at Cannes, primarily because of its centerpiece, a nine-minute rape scene that's almost impossible to sit through (at least it was for me). It feels half like an exploitation film and the blurriness of the director's intent makes it kind of a squeamish experience.

Anyway, if anyone has any recommendations for "dark" or "disturbing" movies, I'm thinking of doing a longish non-fiction piece on the subject sometime this year and I'd appreciate some input.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

EB'sAA
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:29 pm:   

Well, of course, from our point of view it doesn't get much more disturbing than Fatal Attraction and that one scene in Roger and Me.

As a typical speciesist, though, you are probably discounting such Bunsploitation horrors as Who Framed Roger Rabbit and Space Jam. Sure, you Short-Ears done away with Stepin Fetchit, but the oppression of your long-eared servants continues unababted. As long we hippity hop hop with a smile and a stupid hat and deliver those peeps on time you remain complacent, convinced of your superiority. Beware: strength lies in numbers, and on the reproductive robustness scale, you pale by comparison. One day we will hop up and smite our oppressors...

Wiggle your nose at that!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:44 pm:   

I thought your leg was in a snare over in the Matrix threat, EB's AA.

Well, I think we've given your delightful species its due with the bloodthirsty bunny horror pic, Lepus, surely one of the most horrible (though not horrifying) flicks ever released.

So come the revolution, are we talking about lots of renamed infrastructure -- the White Hutch, the State of the Cabbage Patch speech, and like that? Will there be a Federal Bunny of Investigation?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Brrrrian Frost
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:17 pm:   

Oh, don't get me started on The Wrong Trousers.

Bloody humans.

Brrrrian Frost
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Klima
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 01:27 pm:   

Are you thinking along the lines of "Salo," "Man Behind the Sun," "Cannibal Holocaust," "Nekromantic," "Last House on the Left," "I Spit on Your Grave," "Dead Alive," "Meet the Feebles," etc.? Or more like "Mulholland Falls," "Insomnia" (original), the "Kingdom," "Ringu," etc.?

I haven't seen more recent dark/disturbing films since my wife does not enjoy them and I do enjoy her company so I spend time with her instead. But, up to about 1997 it seems like I saw just about everything gritty and nasty out there if you need your memory jogged.

The "Cremaster" cycle is filled with disturbing imagery, but not film-like in any linear sense. I've seen only two out of the five film sequences, and they take a long time to tell not much story. But that's their point, they are not meant to be viewed as you wuold view a film, they are meant to be viewed as you would view a piece of art...these pieces of art just happen to be moving. The current entertainment weekly has an article about them as the films are being prepared to tour the country.

Does any or all of this fit what you're thinking of?

JK
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:47 pm:   

Ever see "In A Glass Cage"? That's so dark, it makes my stomach hurt.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:52 pm:   

JK, I mean more like Mulholland Falls and Ringu and etc. Not interested in the real gross-out stuff, I'm looking for stuff I don't know about, stuff that may be obscure or just that I've missed.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 02:54 pm:   

Jonathan, thanks for the rec. I don't know the film -- I'll look it up on IMDB.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 04:44 pm:   

John K: even the mention of Nekromantic turns my stomach! Man, those Germans can really do gross-out. And I think Funny Games fits into that category: a "good" movie in terms of conception and production, but something I wish I'd never seen, b/c of all the in-your-face sadism.

I'll mention Peter Weir's "Picnic at Hanging Rock" (I have before on some other list also), as it's a bit dark. And I probably don't need to mention "Angel Heart", which was surprisingly great.

As dark movies are my cuppatea as well, I'm sure I'll have others to recommend, but they're just not coming to me now.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:03 pm:   

You may have to check yer bootleg or overseas connections to find a copy, Lucius. I don't think it ever got released here. IMDb doesn't have much to say about it. The one reviewer there didn't seem too impressed, but when I watch it, it feels like two giant fists kneading my lungs. If you find a copy, lemme know what you think.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:21 pm:   

Jonathan,

Yeah, I checked. No joy. Where was it made? Is it English language...or what?

I appreciate it -- it sound like just the thing I'm looking for.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:23 pm:   

Peter...
Any recommendations you can come up with would be great. Thanks.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 05:40 pm:   

Are you looking for plain-old dark, or something a little more transgressive? Like TENDERNESS OF THE WOLVES? IN THE REALM OF THE SENSES? Haneke's FUNNY GAMES? You should probably work your way through the Takashi Miike shelf: I think AUDITION is the most interesting even though/because it lacks the orgiastic tonal excesses of DEAD OR ALIVE, HAPPINESS OF THE KATAKURIS, ICHI THE KILLER, etc. (Is Miike the spiritual heir of Seijun Suzuki?)

NAKED KILLER is pretty wild stuff. You already know Amenabar's TESIS (if you need a movie to represent the darkness that is graduate school).

The last couple of Svankmajers are dark AND hilarious. LITTLE OTIK is a charmer. And for good clean fun you cannot top his Rube-Goldbergian masturbation epic CONSPIRATORS OF PLEASURE.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:05 pm:   

Miike...Yeah! I've seen AUDITION, DEAD OR ALIVE (though not the sequel), ICHI, and a couple of his lesser gangster flicks. I bought NAKED KILLER but haven't watched it yet. I'll definitely check out LITTLE OTIK and CONSPIRATORS.

Your Suzuki-Miike supposition is pretty good. They definitely share an attitudinal relationship, kind of a grim self-conscious playfulness of style...or something. :-) I talked to Miike briefly at the Seattle film festival last year and he was fairly dismissive of a lot of his work, said he made too many of his movies too fast. Interesting guy.

I guess I am looking toward the transgressive end of dark, but I'm not entirely clear on what I want to do yet, so I'm just feeling about for suggestions. And I appreciate yours...

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 06:40 pm:   

i watched HANA-BI, a film by takeshi kitano the other night, and it might be along the dark way you're looking at, lucius. i thought it was quite tender in places, mostly in the end.

also, continuing on the lines of films with beat takeshi in them, i saw BATTLE ROYALE a while back. i was entirely impressed.

that's just off the top of my head. notsure if they're entirely what you're looking for, but can't hurt to mention.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 07:48 pm:   

Yup, Ben. That's a good area...Beat Takeshi and Battle Royale. I'm definitely going to be watching a lot of Asian movies. Where I'm at more of a loss is with recent European stuff.

Thanks!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 07:48 pm:   

actually, it occured to me, shortly after posting the first time, that i don't think i'll ever watch REQUIEM FOR A DREAM again. it's a good film, one i liked quite a lot, but i found it hard to sit through in places. (those places related to the old lady's storyline, whose name is on the tip of my tongue, but...)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Klima
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:34 pm:   

"In a Glass Cage" is very disturbing. Anything that features Nazi fetishism is disturbing. It's Spanish.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0090197

JK
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

John Klima
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 08:39 pm:   

Oh, and I guess that means that the Ilsa films are out, too? What about "The Forbidden"? Or "Bloodsucking Freaks"? (I think I'm showing my splatter tendencies...)

JK
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:14 pm:   

Thanks, John. |

Yeah, I don't think the Ilsa things could be considered dark, They're too damn funny.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:34 pm:   

Dark Water is wonderful and disturbing...a traditional ghost story, and therefore structurally predictable, but the closest thing I have seen to a Ramsey Campbell story put on film, in the sense that the psychological and supernatural elements are inseparable, and one is left with a deep sense of pity for the characters. I have a feeling the ending must resonate differently for its intended Japanese audience. But you probably already saw this at last year's SIFF.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:45 pm:   

In spite of admiring it tremendously, I couldn't sit through the end of Audition; however, I love Katakuris unreservedly. It's not exactly dark, though. It's too funny. The lack of constipation in the narrative, and Miike's ability to churn them out like a Japanese PKD, is refreshing.

Someone mentioned The Kingdom, which I ended up enjoying although it took a few hours to give in to it. But Zentropa was really disturbing, if one's on the subject of Von Triers.

I watched the Pang Brothers' "The Eye" the other night. Again, totally predictable, derivative of any number of movies and ghost stories, but still worth watching. Ghost stories seem to be exercises in composition; when the plot is predictable, you look at other things.

I have heard good things of Ju-On, another Japanese ghost tale, but have failed so far to find a copy of it.

Has anyone yet watched the Korean "Resurrection of the Little Match Girl"?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 09:50 pm:   

lamprey....

Yeah, I've got a video of DARK WATER a friend made for me. Haven't seen THE EYE, but I guess I'm going have to -- it played SIFF this year.

Don't know JUON or RESUURECTION OF THE LITTLE MATCH GIRL, but I'm going to try and hunt 'em up.

Thanks...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:05 pm:   

I watched The Eye on DVD the same night it was playing at SIFF. Not sure that Resurrection is terribly dark; it looks more like a Matrix ripoff. Although I will note that Asian Matrix ripoffs seem to be far more entertaining than their ponderous progenitors. (Case in point: Returner. One of the most enjoyable s.f. movies I have seen in ages, which plays out like a collision of Terminator, E.T., Independence Day, and all the HK action flicks which the Matrix ripped off. Handsome hero, cute action chick, glamorously evil villain, futuristic Tibet, baby aliens, syrupy unrequited romance in the grand HK tradition...yummy...)

Happily, I've got a coworker intent on amassing a huge collection of Asian horror and s.f., and no sooner do I mention some obscure title than he's placed an order with some ebay supplier...sometimes seconds before their account in suspended for shady trading or whatever. I have yet to see Ringu 0 or the Ring Virus, but we've been having fun beating the bush for other Pacific Grim titles.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:08 pm:   

A Resurrection of the Little Match Girl link:

http://www.sung-so.co.kr/trailer/new_0819/trailer_sungso500k.wmv
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:13 pm:   

And some other Japanese titles I haven't seen, but will be seeing soon:

Pulse (Kairo)
The Phone
Versus
Whispering Corridors

The Returner website: www.returner.net

A Ju-On interview:

http://www.japattack.com/japattack/film/juon_itv.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:44 pm:   

THE EYE has just opened theatrically in SF. I tried to watch it several months back (!!remake alert!!) but I thought it was so second-hand and second-rate that I never made it to the end of the tape.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:52 pm:   

THE EYE has just opened theatrically in SF. I tried to watch it several months back (!!remake alert!!) but I thought it was so second-hand and second-rate that I never made it to the end of the tape.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 10:54 pm:   

I thought that one that Peter Jackson made about the two girls who murder the one's mother was pretty dark. I thought it was quite good, though. Strange Creatures or something like that.
Can you describe to me what the hell is happening in Picnic at Hanging Rock? I've only ever been able to see pieces of it. It looks intriguing, though.

Best,

Jeff

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Luís Rodrigues
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:17 am:   

That's HEAVENLY CREATURES. Pretty good flick, although a few directorial ticks of Jackson annoy me here, they somehow seem out of place in the movie.

Cheers,
Luís
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Cisco
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:39 am:   

Lessee ... I don't know if you've ever seen "The Night Porter," with Dirk Bogarde and Charlotte Rampling, but that's a dark one, and often overlooked. You've probably seen more movies than I have, but, while I wouldn't call "Night of the Hunter" exactly dark, it is brilliant. I know you're a "Chinatown" man; Polanski's adaptation of Shakespeare's Scottish Play (old actor's superstition) is remorselessly dark, and "The Tenant" is up/down there as well. Lynch's shorts (the movies, that is) are available on DVD now, and the 55-second "Lumiere" piece is cinematic gold.

While Emir Kusturica's movie "Underground" isn't uniformly dark - you owe it to yourself to see it, if you haven't. It's simply one of the best movies I've ever seen.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:50 am:   

Michael, Wow, I saw THE NIGHT PORTER years ago, but that's a good one --I'd forgotten about it. I'll have to dig it up. THE TENANT, too.

And, yup, UNDERGROUND is amazing. I have another movie of Kusturica's (I think it's his, anyway) called BLACK CAT WHITE CAT, but I haven't opened it yet --in fact, I haven't seen the case in a while; it's lying somewhere in the piles.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:05 am:   

Michael: Speaking of Polanski, Rosemary's Baby has been making the rounds on AMC lately on the tube. I watched it partially one night and then completely another night -- lots of foreboding in that flick and pretty freakin dark for a movie with a lot of sunlight in it.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:21 am:   

lamprey,

RETURNER sounds like a hoot. I know what you're saying about Asiatic rip-offs being more entertaining than their progenitors -- a classic example being Jet Li's BODYGUARD.

If your friend is ordering everything and you haven't yet seen UZUMAKI, I recommend that you mention that to him. Really strange little movie.

Thanks again for your recs, I'm going to look for WHiSPERING CORRIDORS right now.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:28 am:   

Jeff,

You ought not to let anyone describe Picnic at Hanging Rock to you; you oughta break down and watch it. It's worth the trip. Makes you wish Peter Weir would go back to Australia and quit making crap like THE TRUMAN SHOW and GREEN CARD.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:36 am:   

Lucius: OK, I'll send out for a copy of it. It does intrigue me every time I get a glimpse of it. And I'm with you on The Truman Show. That was about the blandest puddle of oatmeal I've ever seen.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:38 am:   

Lamprey, the feeback between Aisan film and Holllywood is getting so intense -- everytime I see a new Japanese or Korean high concept flick, I wonder how fast the rights will get bought. Have you heard of STACY? Here's the plot?


Based on the popular Japanese novel by Kenji Otsuki, Stacy is a bloodbath of extreme gore effects and comedy with
Synopsis: In the early 21st century, teenage girls between the ages of 15 and 17 begin dying all over the world. Shortly before they die, girls succumb to NDH (Near Death Happiness), a “pre-death” state of absolute bliss and joy. Once dead, a girl comes back as a flesh-eating zombie and nicknamed a “Stacy”.

Now the world is in chaos. Countries suffer from famine, war and zero-population growth because of this teenage death-epidemic. To keep the zombies from returning and eating innocent people, families are urged to kill their daughters before they are allowed to die by this mysterious disease (chopping them up and leaving them in garbage bags for government-sanctioned pick-up). In a Japanese military base, some undead schoolgirls are held and tested by a scientist who tries to unlock the secrets behind the girls’ return from the dead. But the world turns upside down yet again as a soldier, in a fit of depression, lets the girls free to storm the base and devour anyone in their path.

I'm not sure if this is too extreme for Hwood, but it seens like a natural for the Buffy/Dawson's Creek ensemble cast. It's coming out in July.

Probably it's just a gross-out like JUNK, but you never know.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:02 am:   

Jeff,

the thing about the Truman Show ( I wrote this on another thread, but it's worth repeating) is that the original script--not front-loaded and set in a kind of cyberpunky near future very dark fake Manhattan -- was terrific. Hollywood paid a ton for it,a record price at the time, then ordered rewrites, and Weir decided to change the setting to one based on this gated community where he owns a home. Guess they didn't want to make the herd nervous or something. Who knows.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Luís Rodrigues
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 08:05 am:   

BLACK CAT WHITE CAT is very good, try to see it as soon as possible.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jack Haringa
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 08:52 am:   

Miike's Visitor Q takes the imploding dysunctional family dynamic a little bit past Requiem for a Dream territory. Darker and infinitely more bizarre is a little Korean number titled Teenage Hooker Became a Killing Machine in Daehak-roh--I kid you not. The title is a pretty literal synopsis of the plot, in which a teenage prostitute is murdered and brought back to life as a killer cyborg.

On the Western front, I'm looking forward to the US release of 28 Days Later, which I understand is pretty bleak stuff.

~Jack~
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:16 am:   

I love "Black Cat, White Cat", though it's not dark, really (but I think Kusturica's "Underground" and "Time of the Gypsies" --at least marginally-- fit the "dark" label). Funny thing: lent my copy of BCWC to a cousin of Kusturica's wife as she hadn't yet seen it. She left for England with it. Guess I'll have to wait for it to come out on DVD now...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:37 am:   

Jack,

28 Days Later is, indeed, dark. You can get it on Region 3 DVD from any number of sites, Poker Industries et al.

I was just looking at Visitor Q online, considering getting it,and I'll definitely check out Teenage Hooker etc....

Many thanks...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:39 am:   

Peter and Luis,

Okay, I'm convinced. As soon as time allows, I'll watch BCWC.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:54 am:   

It seems that many of my favorites have already been mentioned, but I'll reiterate a bit here.

Polanski's The Tenant and Repulsion: both of them excellent creep-outs.

Sam Fuller's Shock Corridor. Been a long time since I've seen this, but it was dark and satisfying.

Peeping Tom. The director escapes me, but this was a chilling exploration into the mind of a killer.

Herzog often explores descents into madness and obsession quite well. Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre, the Wrath of God, The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser really do it for me. My favorite may still be his documentary My Best Fiend, which explores his love/hate-hate-hate relationship with Kinski; truly jaw-dropping, dark and funny all at once.

Fassbinder. Can only take his stuff when I'm in the right frame of mind. Marriage of Maria Braun and Bitter Tears of Petra Von Kant are both pretty nasty.

I liked Audition, but it was perhaps a bit too gruesome/graphic for my tastes.

Night Porter is one of my favorites, and quite fearless in its subject matter.

Kwaidan and Onibaba were both really nice, though Kwaidan was a bit too formal, I guess, to be really sinister.

Love what I've seen of Amenabar's stuff: Open Your Eyes, The Others and Thesis. I some ways this is traditional horror fare, but he does it so damn well.

Recently saw The Swimmer (director Frank Perry, 1968), which really blew me away. Burt Lancaster "swims" home from pool to pool through an affluent Connecticut suburb. That's all I'll say about the plot so I don't spoil it, but let's say it definitely fits this topic.

One more comes to mind now that I'm in the 60's: The Wicker Man. A nice little piece of escalating horror that centers around a Scottish island whose people practice a sort of utopian paganism.

Oh, and Peter Weir's The Last Wave: a nice companion piece to Picnic at Hanging Rock.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 09:54 am:   

I saw Picnic at Hanging Rock several times after Weir made such a stir here with The Last Wave in the late 70's. Picnic is very Robert Aickman-esque, but for full apocalyptic effect, nothing matches the Last Wave. Maybe it doesn't hold up very well; I haven't seen it since the late 70's. But it was a fine embodiment of a nightmare.

Agreed that the Lynch segment in the Lumiere collection is almost worth the price of admission (certainly worth getting this out of the library if yours has it). What he does in 55 seconds of unedited film is just unbelievable. When we can run digital video loops on our sweatshirts, I will run this one and the two Korean girls singing the money karaoke. The other standout bit in that Lumiere collection was the slow zoom in on the rotting carcass. Was that Kusturica as well?

I'll bet Stacy will be great in the Japanese version, and absolutely awful when it gets here. The one thing that I found interesting about the US remake of "The Ring" was that it felt as if somehow all the various threads of the other movies had come together in it. It was a really satisfying maturation of the whole Ring phenomenon. I was amazed how many of the good bits in it were original to that film, and were not in the source movies. I enjoy them as well, and I think they hold up better for repeated viewing because there are more weird rough edges in them to snag on your imagination, but the US Ring was one of the first remakes I've seen which actually improved on the originals in several ways.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:28 am:   

Peter: Isn't Peeping Tom, Michael Powell? I think that's the name. He was one of Scorceses' mentors, I think, or was a major influence. In fact, I think Scorceses editor was Powell's wife. This may all be a dream I had but I think it's true.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:56 am:   

Peterw,

PEEPING TOM is a necessary choice, a watershed picture, so strong it pretty much ruined the great Michael Powell's career. SHOCK CORRIDOR is a masterpiece, but most viewers will not be able to see past its dopey, campy surface to the radical document underneath. Ahhhhh, Sammy.

(Those two movies always put me in mind of Robert Rossen's LILITH, which is not exactly transgressive, but still dark, in a delicate way, so I guess I get to mention it. Still Peter Fonda's best performance, and maybe Warren Beatty's.)

If you like ONIBABA you should try to track down another Shindo ghost story, KURONEKO, which opens with an absolutely spectacular long take.

Hey, did anybody see Emir Kusturica as the gadget man in Neil Jordan's sadly underappreciated THE GOOD THIEF (which is a better movie than the Melville original)?

As for Weir, I always thought the early "good" Australian ones were just as empty and pretentious as the later "bad" American ones. But they are kinda pretty, I guess.

Anyone want to take on the Italian giallos? Where's Tim Lucas when you need him? And before I forget, where the heck did I put my ADD medication . . . ?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 12:58 pm:   

Hi, Lucius, sorry it took so long to get back to you. "In A Glass Cage" is Spanish, I believe. Beautifully filmed with an arthouse sheen that almost makes it more horrifying. A lot of the bootleg video dealers carry it, and I assume you know where to look. If you do have any trouble, I can send you an address where you can get a dupe if you'd like. No idea where you'd get legit copies.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:10 pm:   

Jeff: Powell's the man. I seem to recall reading that he was also a spook of some kind --CIA perhaps-- at one point in his life. And do see Picnic at Hanging Rock if you don't require fast pacing in your viewing choices. As Lucius said though, trying to get an idea of "what it's about" beforehand may ruin it a bit for you (though now I'm tempted ).

>SHOCK CORRIDOR is a masterpiece, but most viewers will not be able to see past its dopey, campy surface to the radical document underneath

S.Hamm: Nice observation, and one I should've mentioned for those with low camp-tolerance. Lilith? Sounds intriguing, but haven't heard of it; I'll be tracking that one down. Kuroneko too.

>Hey, did anybody see Emir Kusturica as the gadget man in Neil Jordan's sadly underappreciated THE GOOD THIEF (which is a better movie than the Melville original)?

Yep. Great character, great movie (Nolte was terrific!). He was played the condemned man in The Widow of St Pierre with some aplomb. Kusturica also has a band, the "No Smoking Orchestra". Rollicking Balkan madness set to music, as anyone who's seen Underground would probably guess. Here's a link:

http://www.emirkusturica-nosmoking.com/

>And before I forget, where the heck did I put my ADD medication . . . ?

I "borrowed" it from you: I think I need it more.

Lest I forget: Donald Cammell's Performance, starring Mick Jagger is a dark, twisted and psychedelic masterpiece of sorts, wherein a rock star and a gangster trade lives, sexual partners, and various psychoses. Demented hijinks ensue.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:28 pm:   

I overheard a conversation where two writers I know were singing the praises of Dario Argento. The Blind Dead? Or something like that. The dead comes back and they are hungry, but they are also blind. The idea of it cracks me up.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 01:59 pm:   

I have all four of the Blind Dead movies (and obviously too damn much time on my hands). They aren't Argentio flix tho. Something about Satan-worshiping Knights Templar who got their eyes gouged out and then come back hundreds of years later. On zombie horses yet. The movies all have scenes of people trying to sneak quietly past the sightless, shambling dead. Then some nitwit usually lets out a scream, and the gut-munching ensues. Pretty crappy mindless fun.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 02:08 pm:   

Jeff,

I particularly hate it when the dead are nervous, but mute. For what it's worth...

Argento never appealed to me much, though Suspiria had its moments. I haven't seen much giallo personally, outside of the occasional giallo wrestling match.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 02:24 pm:   

Jonathan: Great post. I think if I ever saw those flicks it would ruin it for me. But you pretty well summed up what I find hilarious about the idea. I remember in the conversation I overheard, they went on about those horses like they were really something to see. Thanks for the laugh.

Peter: What's giallo?

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

GabrielM
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 02:57 pm:   

"Giallo" is a term applied to certain Italian exploitation thrillers. If you've seen a Dario Argento movie, those are pretty emblematic of good giallo -- violent, weird, psychedelic, fetishistic, artsy....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 03:02 pm:   

Jeff, as I understand the term, giallo refers to the Italian exploitation cinema of the --roughly-- 60s thru late 70s. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that most or all of Dario Argento's (and Mario Bava's and a few more) work would fall smack dab into this category.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 03:11 pm:   

More specifically, it refers to the Italian slasher/crime thriller subgenre. Kind of like sleazy Hitchcock, minus the coherence. I think the name was adopted from a series of cheap pulp novels that had uniform yellow ("giallo") covers.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 03:19 pm:   

Thanks all for the info.


Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Cisco
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 03:21 pm:   

This is all just "I saw it too" department stuff, for what it's worth:

Shock Corridor - the black man who believes he's a Klansman, stands on the bed with a hood on his head and starts screaming white racist rhetoric, that one will stay with me forever.
Herzog - I know "Nosferatu" is often written off as a laff-riot in the English version, but I find the German very effective. Watching Kinski, you realize that there is such a thing a the right way to wear make up and a costume, and he knows it. The opening alone, with the bat and the mummies, is enough to plunge me into a thoroughly dark spot ... My Best Fiend is superb: "I hadn't seen [Kinski] in some time, and was looking forward to our meeting, although I had only recently given up my plan to murder him." By the end of the film you realize that Herzog is just as insane as Kinski, only more quietly so.

Kwaidan is a formal film, but it is also extraordinarily beautifully filmed.

Jeff - I think sunny horror movies are the best! At the end, when you realize that everyone around Rosemary is a for real Satanist, the feeling is hard to describe ... you don't feel as though you've been plunged into unreality, although the whole situation is dreamlike - rather it's the normalness of the Satanists that gets you. They're all just the sort of boring-looking people you see everywhere. John Cassavettes wants a hit on Broadway, so he lets SATAN RAPE HIS WIFE TO PRODUCE THE ANTICHRIST!?!?!?!? That's Hannah Arendt's banality of evil, all right!

Some plugs - I'm sure you know CARNIVAL OF SOULS, which is bleak enough, I think, to make the list, and also beautiful to watch.
a recent Dutch film called CHARACTER, by a director whose name I can never remember doggone it. Would Tarkovsky be out of place on this list of dark films? And Orson Welles directed an adaptation of Kafka's TRIAL, starring Tony Perkins ...

Let me add to an already overstuffed post this modest little rant: watching movies like Psycho, Night of the Living Dead, Carnival of Souls, etc., and watching many silent movies as well, like Metropolis, Faust, Caligari, etc., I'm struck by how much more convincing their simple special effects are for me than modern expensive elaborate effects. This includes but is not limited to CGI. Am I alone?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 03:31 pm:   

A couple of people have mentioned "My Best Fiend," which is really good. But have you seen "Burden of Dreams," a documentary about Herzog's trials in filming "Fitzcarraldo"? It makes a great companion piece and definitely shows that Herzog is just about as nutty.

And I loathe CGI.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:36 pm:   

Damn...go away and work for a few hours, and all of sudden I realize better sell something quick to support my whimsical idea. Thanks for all these good recommendations, I'm really weak on the 60s films, so I'm especially grateful for those.

Jonathan, I may be touch about the bootleg address.

Thanks...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 04:40 pm:   

Michael: I liked Kinski in Nosferatu. I was into it and thought it was dark and humorous. Another really good one is Don't Look Now.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:35 pm:   

I find Kinski consistently mesmerizing to watch.

I've long wanted to see Burden of Dreams, but have never found it. I imagine it might be something like Hearts of Darkness, Copolla's documentary about the making of Apocalypse Now, which is one of my favorite documentaries.

I digress from topic now, but one great documentary/propaganda film is I Am Cuba by Kalatazov: truly astounding filming. Filmed in black/white, but I find myself seeing color while watching it b/c of the masterful composition of all the filming in the movie. Like some of Kurosawa's best, most any still from the movie could be blown-up, framed and hung on the wall.

Another one for the dark/bleak department is Herzog's Stroszek: brings out the heart of darkness in the American dream (just to keep a theme going here).

What's Don't Look Now about Jeff?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 05:50 pm:   

Peter, do you know Kobyashi's films, The Human Condition and Hari Kiri? His frame by frame framability is unparalleled in my view. He mentored Kurosawa, apparently.

On the bleak scale, right up their for me is Tsai Ming-Liang's THE RIVER. An unbelievably good movie that's just unrelenting dismaying.

A film that's in the darker bag, THE RED LOTUS SOCIETY, a really odd movie about five Taiwanse superheros who fought the communists back in the day and now live in the slums of Tapei working ordinary jobs -- food vendor, et al. A mediation on history disguised as a martial arts flick.

I'll stand in for Jeff -- Don't Look Now's a ghostly movie set in Venice with Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie. Way spooky. Probably the spookiest Venice movie ever, with the possible exception of THE COMFORT OF STRANGERS, one of Chris Walken's best roles.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:15 pm:   

I AM CUBA is one of my two favorite docus, right behind Chris Marker's SANS SOLEIL. While we're on the Herzog tip, LITTLE DIETER NEEDS TO FLY is no slouch either.

DON'T LOOK NOW is Nic Roeg's finest moment -- the du Maurier story so obviously lends itself to his fractured, associative-cutting style.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jonathan briggs
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:21 pm:   

Peter, I can give you the same address where Lucius can find "Cage" if you want a bootleg of "Burden of Dreams." However, I think that's a little easier to find. Didn't some DVDs of "Fitzcarraldo" include it as a special feature? Maybe not. And it's a lot like "Hearts of Darkness." You watch as Herzog visibly unravels as they try to drag that damn huge boat up a hillside. Meanwhile, Kinski antagonizes the natives, who offer to kill him for Herzog.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 06:50 pm:   

Lucius: I've seen Hara Kiri and loved it. Will track down The Human Condition; think I saw it on the DVD shelves not long ago. Thanks for that rec and the others. Comfort of Strangers was indeed good (good book, too: Ian McEwan).

And Jonathan: definitely! I'll have to check my copy of Fitzcarraldo again, but I don't believe it was included.

I do appreciate all these excellent recommendations.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 07:49 pm:   

Another ghost story that comes to mind that I thought was interesting in a sort of ethnographic way was the Thai film, NANG NAK, I haven't seen many Thai films, but they seen to do a lot of ghost stories.

Michael, in my view it's not necessarily the CGI stuff that sucks so much as it is that when you have a CGI heavy movie, you have a big budget, and because there's so much money involved, the producers don't want to take any chances with story, they want to make the film accessible to the largest number of people as possible, and so all potential individuality gets scrubbed from the script. But basically, I agree with you that CGI has been for the most apart over- or mis-applied.



Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Tuesday, June 10, 2003 - 10:27 pm:   

What is it about Ian McEwan books that causes them to be made into movies whose cold, sinister characters are played by actors with bad accents? Anthony Hopkins failed to convince as an American military man in THE INNOCENT, and I found Walken wildly unconvincing as a Venetian (?) in THE COMFORT OF STRANGERS. Maybe it was the fact that I couldn't tell the difference between that character and "The Continental." What that movie needed was more cowbell.

Hara Kiri is one of the finest films I've seen; and Onibaba one of the eeriest. I saw them in rapid succession, which I highly recommend.

Saw Argente's "Bird with the Crystal Plumage" by accident when I was about 11 years old. A gang of us kids went for my little brother's 9th birthday, because it was supposed to be an army movie. He didn't like scary movies; they gave him nightmares. This was my first encounter with slasher movies, and while I loved it, I don't think my brother ever quite recovered. I'm afraid to watch it again because I treasure my time-warped memory too much. That was a lucky movie accident. Another time, I talked my mom into dropping us off at a theater where posters were hanging for "The Frozen Dead"--but instead we walked into a matinee showing of that Rankin & Bass stinker, The Wacky World of Mother Goose. Talk about dark.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 05:37 am:   

lamprey....I can't box Anthony Hopkins performance in THE INNOCENT, which seemed (typically of Sir Anthony) mailed in, with Walken in COMFORT -- I thought he was unfailingly sinister in that oblique, confusing way that people sometimes seem when you're out of your culture. I didn't much care if his accent was right. In fact, I never really thought about it. But we can agree that HARA KIRI is magnificent.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

GabrielM
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:25 am:   

I saw DON'T LOOK NOW when I was very young and it scared the bejeezus out of me. I took my wife to see it again a couple of years ago when the print was rereleased and I thought it held up beautifully. It might be one of my favorite movies, not least because it's set in Venice, most surreal of cities.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:33 am:   

"Venice, most surreal of cities...."

Ever been to Cairo? I love Venice, especially in the winter -- I''m going there in November when not many tourists are there and the canals don't smell as bad. But Cairo, man...people living in tombs in the Quayt Bat -- City of the Dead, the roof warrens, the Khan al Khalili bazaa...It's pretty out there. Gets my vote. It's close, though...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:15 am:   

In Comfort of Strangers Walken had that kind of Death in Venice decrepitude about him. He was sinister and slick-sleazy to an extent. Yeah, I liked that performance. The movie didn't stay with me, though.
Don't Look Now, I only thought of it cause Will smith did a review of it recently in Lady Churchill's, but its a freaky movie. Remember those two blind women? And there was something about Time being screwed up in it, like Sutherland was seeing the future and the past at different times. I wonder if you paid attention you could figure out exactly what the fuck was going on.
As for Roeg, I also liked Man Who Fell to Earth, but loved Walkabout.
Another flick I thought of, a ghost story, that had some truly creepy stuff (though not a great film) was Haunted with Aiden Quinn, John Gielgude and Kate? Beckinsal. I know I just murdered the spelling of all those names, but you get the picture. I think this one went straight to video, but definitely a worthwhile ghost story.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 11:00 am:   

Jeff,

huh, I never saw HAUNTED. I'll pick it up. John Gielgud and Kate Beckinsale...wow. There's a cross-generational connection.

I liked WALKABOUT and DONT LOOK NOW a lot, but I think I was too f**ked up when I saw THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH -- I just remember being dizzy and kind of annoyed at David Bowie.

THE COMFORT OF STRANGERS did stick with me, but I realy like both Walken and Helen Mirren so much, pretty much everything they do stays with me.

I mention this because I think you might appreciate it, not because it suits the thread. Did you ever see a little movie called SCOTLAND PA? IT's MacBeth done as a dark comedy, set in 1970s Pennsylvania in and around a fast food franchise (Big Macs)... Walken as MacDuff, James LeGros as MacBeth, and Maura Tierney is great as Lady McBeth.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 12:25 pm:   

I agree about LITTLE OTIK--strange and brutal and oddly moving.

HAPPINESS
DONNIE DARKO
AUDITION (mentioned here already) is very disturbing
WAREHOUSE-- a Japanese film I saw in the 70s about a blind sculptor who kidnaps a young woman to create his masterpiece. Don't remember much else about it.
I second THE LAST WAVE by Weir
SMASH PALACE about a marriage gone bac (Australian, don't recall the director).

Oh, the one that almost made me pass out. CUTTING MOMENTS, only about 40 minutes long. Doug Winter showed it at the ICFA a few years ago--I think it was made by a film student. THere's gore in it but it's utterly utterly creepy.

I'll think of more.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 12:37 pm:   

Hey, thanks, Ellen...especially for mentioning WAREHOUSE, which I'd forgotten about, and SMASH PALACE, which is new to me...

More would be good,

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Cisco
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 12:48 pm:   

Svankmajer's FAUST is excellent as well, although you've no doubt already seen it. What's your take on THE HAUNTING (1963)? I think it lives up to its reputation, myself, and the casting is uncannily good (or is it just me? I would enjoy watching Julie Harris or Claire Bloom read from a phone book for two hours).
THE WITCHFINDER GENERAL, released here in the US under the name THE CONQUEROR WORM, was a bleak outing. Vincent Price without camp.
A movie I did get out to see recently: BARTLEBY, with Crispin Glover immaculately well cast in the title role. A peculiar, and I think a good, small film.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:13 pm:   

Michael, I've been meaning to see BARTLEBY. Glad to hear it's good. And I agree about Bloom and Harris. I thought THE HAUNTING was great. I had the misfortune, however, of having to review the remake, which was almost inconceivably bad. It's hard to imagine what they had in mind. Talk about your lame-ass CGI!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:28 pm:   

Tried to watch SCOTLAND, PA the other night--originally tracked it down because of Lucius recommendation. I loved the premise but could NOT handle the music! Seriously, I had some kind of physical reaction. I had to turn it off. Maybe it was just a bad night for me.

I wonder why more people don't know HARA KIRI. Maybe it's because, as this thread demonstrates, there are more excellent movies on this earth than we can possibly appreciate.

But to sustain the most tenuous of connections to the unappreciated Asian cinema topic, After Crouching Tiger came out, I followed up on an Ang Le comment about that film being a tribute to King Hu. I have so far managed to track down exactly one King Hu movie: The Fate of Lee Khan. It was wonderful...there was something of a roguish Jack Vance quality to the whole thing. I'd love to see more. Anyone know a source for these?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:31 pm:   

SMASH PALACE is an early Roger Donaldson from New Zealand, with Bruno Lawrence (from THE QUIET EARTH) and Anna Jemison, both quite good. It's a straight drama about a junkyard owner who skips out with his daughter after his marriage goes south, so it may not be the kind of dark you're looking for.

The Michael Reeves film that I have a great deal of affection for, despite its obvious longeurs, is THE SORCERERS, in which Boris Karloff and his missus use a mind-control device to hijack the body of Ian Ogilvy so that they can vicariously experience the decadent pleasures of Swingin' London.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Cisco
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:42 pm:   

Re the remake - according to the fella who runs the "British Horror Films" website http://www.britishhorrorfilms.co.uk/haunting.shtml
believes that it was actually a remake of "The Legend of Hell House." Now, I enjoyed Hell House, not least because I find Pamela Franklin as mesmerizing as Julie Harris and Claire Bloom, but the travesty of one movie and the cannibalization of another, to which must be added the waste of Lili Taylor's considerable acting talents, is just unforgiveable.
I hate having to stipulate - no, not THAT Haunting, not THAT Psycho, not THAT Lolita, not THAT Solaris ... thank God they haven't gotten to Citizen Kane yet.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Michael Cisco
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:44 pm:   

Oh - recently saw but can't remember the title of another movie with Dirk Bogarde, a sort of parable of the advance of Nazism as played out in an incredibly dark, Oedipal family melodrama. Does anyone know this film? I believe the director was Italian.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:44 pm:   

lamprey -- hey, I can't even remember the music in SCOTLAND PA. But after seeing it, I began to wonder if all Shakespeare's plays weren't really comedies, cause it seemed that MacBeth certainky played more easily as one. 'Course that's a tendency of mine -- I'm already convinced that MOBY DICK and a good bit of western lit that's taken very seriously is actually wildly comic.

King Hu, huh? Sound fantastic. Something more to look for. Maybe Jonathan's bootleg guy...?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:56 pm:   

lamprey -- forgot to say, maybe why people don;t know HARA KIRI is because Kobyashi's stuff was pretty much suppressed as far as being allowed outside the country until the 70s. As you likely know, the Japanese aren't real fond of him, since his greatest movie debunks the samurai myth to a great degree, and THE HUMAN CONDITION is essentially a ten-hour-long indictment of the Japanese military's actions in Manchuria. From what I can gather he's not held in high esteem and this they don't talk about him as they do about Kurosawa.

Do you know the work of Fugusaku? He's another guy whose works hard to find. Did the best yakuza movie I ever saw and I don't even know the name of it -- I saw it at the Portland Art Musuem. Just saw they were showing Japanese films and walked in off the street. Was so blown away by the film I walked out without grabbing a leaflet, got busy, a year passed, and now I'm starting to look for stuff by him.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

GabrielM
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 01:59 pm:   

Michael Powell? PEEPING TOM?


Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 02:14 pm:   

Michael, I remember that Bogarde movie from way back -- was it THE DAMNED? Bogarde was stuck mostly into dark and/or military roles, which is odd in that he started off doing a comedy series of films.

As far as THE HAUNTING remake, it was hell house as far as I;m concerned. Whatever it was ripping off, it sucked. I suppose CITIZEN KANES immune to remakes, unless they stick in a couple of assassination attempts and a car chase or two...KILLER CITIZEN KANE.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 02:18 pm:   

Sam, THE SORCERERS sounds cool. It sounds familiar, and I have a vague memory of maybe seeing it on televsion a very long while ago....I'm not sure. In any case, I'll try and dig up a copy.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 02:20 pm:   

Gabe,
if you;re interested in PEEPING TOM, it's readily avalable in a Criterion edition. And it's very, very good, as all these other folks have attested.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:30 pm:   

> KILLER CITIZEN KANE.

Maybe just CITIZEN CAIN?

Before the nazi thread runs out, I should mention The Ogre and Mephisto: both well-done films about the even-darker side of the third reich.

And let's not forget about Ken Russell's best: The Devils!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 03:44 pm:   

It's the end that I felt was really dark, if I remember correctly. (it was a while ago).
Still worth seeing, even if not exactly the kind of dark you want to write about.
Ellen

>>SMASH PALACE is an early Roger Donaldson from New Zealand, with Bruno Lawrence (from THE QUIET EARTH) and Anna Jemison, both quite good. It's a straight drama about a junkyard owner who skips out with his daughter after his marriage goes south, so it may not be the kind of dark you're looking for.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 04:07 pm:   

Peter: Is The Ogre based on the book by Michel Tournier. He's one of my favorite writers. And that book is really brutal.

Lucius: THanks for the tip on the MacWalken. I'm with you, I could watch him in anything. I even dug him as that damn Bond villain -- the smiling lackadasical way in which he strafed people with that machine gun. Definitely Walken in The Dead Zone. One of my favorites in a career of favorites.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 04:14 pm:   

Wow, yeah, THE OGRE. What a good movie? There was a typical Weinstein story behind that one. Harvey and Bob wanted to distribute it through Miramax, but the director I can't spell German names) didn't want that to happen, having heard the horror stories about the bothers being in the habit of doing their own editing when the length of a film displeased them. So, wonderful human beings that they are, the Weinstein's made it impossible for him to find reasonable distribution, which is why a film that likely would have had a decent art house run got stuck in little repertoire house with fifty seats and so went all but unnnoticed.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 05:20 pm:   

Jeff: Don't know about the origin of the story but you could be right, and if so, I'll be tracking down the book.

Have to admit, I love Walken too, but for some reason it seems a guilty pleasure. His final moments in The Deer Hunter are engraved indelibly on my memory.

Interesting Ogre story, Lucius. (***insert standard hollywood diatribe here***)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:06 pm:   

Jeff, even when Walken's miscast, like in Dogs Of War, it's kind of OK. I've almost talked myself into seeing the Spielberg-DiCaprio thing that he's in, which for me is like taking a bath in pig drool, but I haven't crossed the line yet.

Peter, THE OGRE is, indeed, based on Tournier's the ERL KING, and it is, as Jeff said, terrific stuff.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:16 pm:   

Lucius: You mean the Spielberg one about the con man? I didn't catch that for another reason -- I get a rash every time I see Hanks. Ever since Forest Gump. There's something about actors pretending to be retarded that really bothers me. I know its another portrayal of a character, and kind of irrational, but something about that... It almost ruined me for Sean Penn, whose movie The Pledge, which was about as dark as you can get with plenty of sunlight, I thought was quite good. You know when he played Sam I Am or whatever the hell that thing was. All I had to do was see the trailers on tv and I started twitching.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 06:54 pm:   

Jeff, I loathe Hanks. I just blank him out. He doesn' t exist for me. I never came close to seeing Gump. I was already there. Mister Potato Head. I can't stand thinking about him.
Gaah! Ack!

You shouldn't blame Penn too much for Sam I Am. In order to make The Pledge, which was excellent, the best Nicholson we've seen since the mid-80s, Penn basically had to sell his ass. I mean, you walk into a studio and say, Hey, I've got this old Friedrich Durrenmat novel I'd like to make, the execs don't exactly start doing cartwheels; so in order to get money for The Pledge, he had to sign onto three or four roles he might not have ordinarily taken, and the role of Sam was one of them.
I have this on good authority, So just consider The Pledge an act of courage on Penn's part.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 07:08 pm:   

lamprey,

HKFlix.com lists 8 King Hu films for sale, none of them the one you mention. The one they recommend is COME DRINK WITH ME. Here's what they say about it:

Universally considered one of the best Hong Kong movies ever made, Cheng Pei Pei is Golden Swallow, who teams with a swordsman named Drunken Cat to battle a corrupt Buddhist monk with mystical martial arts powers.
Overview: In 2001, there was director Ang Lee, villainess Cheng Pei-Pei, and "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". 35 years before, there was legendary director King Hu (AKA Hu King-Chuan) ("A Touch Of Zen"), beloved heroine Cheng Pei-Pei, and this film--universally considered one of the best Hong Kong movies ever made. Here Cheng is Golden Swallow, who teams with a swordsman named Drunken Cat to battle a corrupt Buddhist monk with mystical martial arts powers. Without question, this production set a new standard for Asian action movies.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:14 pm:   

Greatest hi-lo gag in the history of Hollywood: in P. Sturges' THE PALM BEACH STORY, Rudy Vallee plays eccentric oil millionaire John D. Hackensacker, whose yacht is christened "The Erl King." (Nothing to do with Tournier or Schlondorff, but still.)

And by the way -- I know I've squandered my credibility by touting A.I., but you guys are missing a bet with CATCH ME IF YOU CAN. Hanks is strictly a supporting player and Walken is terrific.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:35 pm:   

Sam, you're not the first to tell me this about CATCH AS CATCH CAN, but it's a hard step to take. :-) I'll probably rent the video.

And, naw, you haven't busted your credibility -- you obviouslty know a whole bunch about movies. I just can't get there with AI.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 08:44 pm:   

Sam: You sold me on the Catch Me If You Can. And I'm a real Hanks hater but I liked AI, so go figure. One of Walken's creepier, though played for comedy, showings in recent years was Mouse Hunt. A flick I probably would have missed if it wasn't for the fact that the only movies in theatres for about eight years were kid movies. I swear in the movie he looked like he was ill. There was a great line about Walken in The New Yorker Review of Legend of Sleepy Hollow. The reviewer called Walken's evil horseman make-up "redundant." That cracked me. As you can see, it doesn't take much.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:17 pm:   

Jeff,

With CW it's either creepy played for comedy or comedy played for creepy, and sometimes you can't tell which, as in KING OF NEW YORK. (I'd recommend a Ferrara for Lucius's dark list if Ferrara would just stop trying so hard.)

S.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 09:32 pm:   

Sam: The Bad Leiutenant?

Best,


Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:05 pm:   

Guys, I'd go for the "Crime Story" pilot that Ferrara directed, or King of New York. After that, I'm pretty much off the guy, though I haven't seen his last couple of movies.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:38 pm:   

CRIME STORY is my pick. Two-tone hoods running through the men's wear department in black suits, white shirts, black shoes, white socks. Bliss.

Haven't undertaken his Wm. Gibson opus, alas.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:48 pm:   

Sam, spare yourself NEW ROSE HOTEL. Seriously. It's way bad. I don't what Abel was on when he was making this one (well, maybe I do), but whatever, it didn't align with the idea of good filmmaking. Aside from being deeply boring, it looks as if he may have run out of money during the filming. It's a mess. Embarrassing.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Wednesday, June 11, 2003 - 10:55 pm:   

Holy cow. I see from the Village Voice that there's a brand-new Seijun Suzuki, PISTOL OPERA, playing theatrically in New York.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:03 am:   

Lucius, if you go to the King County Library's online service you can find and order the King Hu Lee Khan video. www.kcls.org. Actually, here you go:

http://ipac.kcls.org/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=105540L13KL60.15651&profile=dial--1 --1--1&uri=full=1100001@!448767@!7&ri=1&aspect=basic_search&menu=search&source=198.104.1.58@!dial--1--1 --1&ipp=20&staffonly=&term=lee+khan&index=ALL&uindex=&aspect=basic_search&menu=s earch&ri=1#focus

That's where I get almost everything I watch these days.

It has really sassy dubbing, and the woman who runs the inn reminds me weirdly of Debbie Reynolds. It's a precursor of Dragon Inn, I suspect.

Sammy, even my die-hard Suzuki-lovin' cronies were let down by Pistol Opera...haven't seen it yet myself. It played SIFF last year, I believe. They were so tragically disappointed that I can't bring myself to hunt it down. I'm similarly girding myself for Beat Takeshi's DOLLS.

(The melody of Tokyo Drifter drifts continually through my mind; has ever since I saw it years ago.)

Speaking of nameless yakuza movies, a few years ago I heard of one called THE WORST YEAR OF MY LIFE. The plot involved a disgraced yakuza trying to get his pinky back. I have never found mention of it anywhere. Ring any bells?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:04 am:   

Also, way up at the top of this thread, there are two references to "Mulholland Drive" as "Mulholland Falls." Don't tell people to watch "Mulholland Falls." They will never trust you again.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:10 am:   

And now the bottle's uncorked, I can't restrain myself. Whatever happened to the *new* Tsui Hark Legend of Zu movie? The one that was supposedly a remake of Zu Warriors but featuring a completely different plot? I saw one splendiferous theatrical trailer, then news of a direct to dvd release, and then utter silence.

Can some western director/writer combo please team up with Hark and make the movie where Arthur's knights, in search of the grail, end up following the Silk Road to Tibet and teaming up with mystic monks? Please, Tsui? I mean, Tsam Harkamm?

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 06:06 am:   

lamprey,

thanks for the library url.

I see I did make the "Falls"-"Drive" error. Well, I'm sloppy with names, what can I say. Lee Tamahori, there's a sad story. I hear he's pretty much doing any kind off TV work he can get in Hollywood these days, one of the victims, a la Hark, Genet, et al, of the studio tactic, let's bring the foreign guy in and give the film a new look and then hamstring his ass so he can't do what we hired him for. The brain damage levels down there are amazing.
He'll always have ONCE WERE WARRIORS, anyway, speaking of dark.

Don't know anything about Zu Warriors except it was supposed to be released and hasn't been. Fandango still lists it as opening soon, I believe, which means nothing.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 06:53 am:   

Speaking of Ferraro (whose Bad Lieutenant I really disliked) reminded me for some reason of the brilliant Exotica by Atom Ergoyan. An extremely dark, heartbreaking puzzle movie.


Catch Me if You Can is excellent. DiCaprio and Walken are terrific in it and Tom Hanks (who I have no problem with --but admittedly have never seen or wanted to see Forrest Gump--was pretty good too). I thyought Hanks was excellent in Road to Perdition.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:00 am:   

Ellen: I'm not a Ferrara fan at all, but The Bad Lieutenant has one great scene, where he is driving in city traffic all drugged up and listening to the Mets game on the radio. They start to lose and he takes his gun out and shoots the radio a few times. I laugh now even thinking about it. The rest of that flick he seemed to be making up as he went along,which is sometimes great, but the making up wasn't working out as it did in King of New York. How bout that piece of crap he did with Madonna -- there oughta be a law. He also ruined that Puppet Masters (was that the name of it?) deal. How can you make a movie with that plot and it be boring? Shit, the one about the kids in high school, The Faculty, with the same plot was ten times better.

Best,

Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jack Haringa
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:06 am:   

Sticking with Asian cinema, I'd recommend the films of Kiyoshi Kurosawa: Cure ran on the Sundance channel as part of their Asian horror month last year, and I found it beautifully bleak and compelling, though the dialogue was sometimes exasperating (which was intentional. His second film, Charisma contains ambiguously supernatural elements but deals intelligently with obsession and madness.

Two wicked psychosexual Korean films also pop to mind for this discussion. The first, Lies deals with a harrowing top/bottom relationship and has had a US DVD release. The second is The Isle, which deals with sexual addictions as well.

On the domestic front, I loved Session 9, Brad Anderson's ambiguously supernatural horror film about a group of hazardous materials workers doing clean up in a derelict asylum (shot on location in the actually derelict Danvers State Mental Hospital in Danvers, Mass). A friend of mine described it as akin to being run over by a truck very very slowly.

~Jack~
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:16 am:   

Jeff, like I said to Sam, if you want to see how far Ferrara's slipped from Bad Lieutenant, check out New Rose Hotel...but really you shouldn't.. His last movie, which I haven't seen, is called RXmas and is about a smack dealer getting his bundles ready for his customers on Xmas Eve. I have the feeling it contains a good bit of autobiographical detail.
Aparently, when Ferrara was making NEW ROSE he'd call up Gibson in the mddle of the night and was pretty damned incoherent.

I'd forgotton that scene in Bad Lieutenant. That was pretty good, but that Madonna thing...whoa!

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:20 am:   

Ellen, thanks for reminding me of Exotica! As for your attitude toward Tom Hanks, this has been long a matter of dispute between us...apparently unresolvable. :-)

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:25 am:   

Jack,

Thanks for reminding me of SESSION 9. Great little movie.

Wasn't Kurosawa the guy who did a remake of SEANCE ON A WET AFTERNOON? I think so. Yeah, CURE gets a vote here.

Haven't seen LIES, but THE ISLE, that's directed by Du Kim Kit, the director of BAD GUY, which was the movie that got me off onto this. I just ordered it -- I've seen two movies by Kit and they're both outstanding. I think he may be the real deal.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 10:28 am:   

Jeff, the scene that really blew it for me in Bad Lieutenant was Keitel's masturbation scene while he was giving a young woman a traffic ticket. It was such self-indulgent, never-ending sleazoid exploitation on the part of Ferrara that I was furious. I don't recall the shoot the radio scene.

Now Ms 45 I liked.

Hey Lucius, we're cool
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 10:52 am:   

Lucius -- If Lee Tamahori is doing TV, it's strictly because he wants to. DIE ANOTHER DAY was the biggest-grossing James Bond ever. You'll probably see a fully-stocked DVD display stand at your local supermarket next time you stop in for yogurt.

IFC was running THE ISLE a couple of months ago. They also ran a Korean serial-killer movie which I meant to watch, but I can't remember the Got-dang title . . . .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jack Haringa
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:39 am:   

S. Hamm--might that have been Tell Me Something? Not a bad film at all, but a little muddled as it reached its end, if I remember correctly.

Has someone already mentioned the Japanese film Another Heaven? This was another one that ran on either Sundance or IFC not so long ago. The Poker Industries synopsis: "A series of terrible, disgusting, and shocking homicides are happening around town. A serial killer is cutting the heads off its victims and cooking the brains to eat. Two detectives on the case gradually figure out that the maniac is not a human. Instead, they believe it is a supernatural power that can shift its spirit to any human body. And its next target just may be the girlfriend of one of the detectives." This one has a warped sensibility, sometimes dreamlike, and it's pretty damned graphic as well.

~Jack~
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jack Haringa
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:43 am:   

Lucius--I didn't know of the SEANCE remake. Do you happen to know the title? Kurosawa also directed Kairo/ Pulse, a film about a killer website that should be watched, as opposed to that POS Feardotcom which no amount of Geoffrey Rush's scenery-chewing could save.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

jeff ford
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:53 am:   

Ellen: I know the scene you are refering to and agree, but was even more affected by the self-indulgence of Keitel crawling up the aisle of the church and seeing Christ or the virgin Mary or something, and it isn't because I'm religious, it's becuase I was laughing too hard.

Best,


Jeff
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:55 am:   

Jack,

the remake is SEANCE or KOREI. I've got Pulse but haven't watched it. Thanks.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:59 am:   

Sam,

Well, goes to show you're more on top of this than I. What I said about Tamohori was true for a good while after MULHOLLAND FALLS, but I guess he's righted himself careerwise.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 12:46 pm:   

Jack H.,

TELL ME SOMETHING. Ding ding ding! We have a winnah. I am in your debt, sir.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 07:21 pm:   

hey, lucius, have you considered CHOPPER for your movies of dark and gritty love? it's a fine movie, probably one of the best to come out of australia for a while.

there is a sequel to ONCE WERE WARRIORS, called WHAT BECOMES OF THE BROKEN HEARTED. i don't think it got as much distribution as the first, and it's not as good, but i do remember alan duff, the writer whose novels they're based off, saying that this movie was more of how he says the books.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 08:07 pm:   

Hey, Ben...

Yeah, I got CHOPPER. Gives me some hope for HULK. Not much, but some.

I haven't seen WHAT BECOMES....I knew about it, but had forgotten the name. Thanks. I think I may wind up getting it at some point.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:29 am:   

lucius: i have a bit of hope for HULK, but i long ago stopped expecting anything from eric bana. not because he's a bad actor--he's actually quite good, but i remember his stand up comedian career, and i still find it a bit baffling that he's turned out to be this guy who can really act. part of me keeps waiting for him to turn around and lapse into the second rate comedian he was when he appeared on local tv shows and, even, on that late night talk show he had for all of what appeared to be two months.

as an interesting side note, the story i saw from the director of CHOPPER, was that it was mark 'chopper' reid himself who recommended bana for the role after seeing him in those tv shows.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 04:53 am:   

Ben, I never had any cognizance of Bana as a comedian. CHOPPER just came out of the blue for me. But it's kinda great to know he wasn't a very good comedian -- maybe be was doing an Andy Kaufman thing, like with that guy Kaufman invented. Probably not.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 09:53 am:   

I knew I was forgetting something: Fires on the Plain by Kon Ichikawa (Burmese Harp).

Exquisitely beautiful and unutterably grim.

But then...I guess we shouldn't throw open the gates to "war movies."

Short Cuts was pretty friggin' dark, although not nearly as dark as the stories it tried to adapt. Carver is my favorite horror writer completely neglected by the generic horror community.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 11:28 am:   

One brief tangent, in the vein of asian cinema: the "Lone Wolf and Cub" movies are a guilty pleasure of mine. There were six episodes covering the adventures of the Shogun's ex-executioner and his infant son. They have a contract out on their lives, and are pursued by a clan of ninja intent on killing them. The kid's babycart is the feudal Japanese equivalent of a James Bond car, with all manner of weapons. Definitely grim, and a little campy (spouting blood, etc.) Great fun, nonetheless.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lamprey
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:25 pm:   

A good friend of mine raves about the Long Wolf and Cub films, and has been very depressed to hear that Aronofsky is apparently making clawlike swiping gestures at them while growling deep in his throat.

Guess I'll have to dig them up now.

So far, based on this thread, I've ordered "My Best Fiend" and "Underground" from the local library. Lone Wolf is next I think.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 01:45 pm:   

Yeah, if you're doing horrors-of-war then you have to start thinking about JEUX INTERDITS and the like, and then you're neck-deep in poetic shit.

That said, FIRES ON THE PLAIN ought to qualify from the dietary angle alone . . . .
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

peterw
Posted on Friday, June 13, 2003 - 02:06 pm:   

> A good friend of mine raves about the Long Wolf and Cub films, and has been very depressed to hear that Aronofsky is apparently making clawlike swiping gestures at them while growling deep in his throat.

lamprey: does that mean that Aronofsky's going to be re-making them?

Incidentally, they're starting to release them (Lone Wolf & Cub) on DVD. Here's a link:

http://www.momii.com/zatoichi/

And as no one's mentioned them yet (in this thread, anyway), I'll speak up for Jeunet "et" Caro, the cinematographers who brought us Delicatessen and City of Lost Children. I don't think anyone would disagree that their films are dark, but perhaps there's too much humor in them to really fit Lucius' criteria... Delicatessen is one of my all-time favorites.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 01:37 am:   

Question -- there was a strange black comedy, French Canadian, about a kid who believes his father is, for all intents and purposes, a pile of tomatoes. That ring a bell with anyone? I'm blanking on the name.

Hey, DELICATESSEN qualifies.

I don' t like most war movies. They don't feel right to me -- that's a very inadequate explanation, but that's how it is. That said, FIRES ON THE PLAIN is a great movie.

Here's a couple I like a lot that I'd forgotten.

EL NORTE
L'AMERICA
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 04:16 am:   

lucius, bana was on, mainly, this sketch comedy show called FAST FORWARD. nothing kaufmanesque abot it in my mind, it was just bad. the kind of bad sketch comedy that australia has produced since i can remember, and will continue to do so until the end of my time, i am sure.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Daniel Read
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:15 am:   

Going back a few days in the postings, I have to agree with Ben Peek: I enjoyed Requiem for a Dream quite a lot, but watching it again will be difficult. I'm sure I will again someday, though. The first time, I watched it at home alone and went to bed shortly after it ended. It gave me nightmares, and few movies ever do that. As one who is both prone to addiction and fascinated by our culture's myriad addictions, I loved Arnofsky's naked portrayal of the darkest sides of addiction.

Dan
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 11:46 am:   

Answering my own question --LEOLO. The French Canadian black comedy I mentioned. Just a terrific movie. If any of y'all haven't seen this, I swear it's worth renting.

Ben...well, the only Australian TV I get to see are some lame-ish police procedural series they occasionally show on the Mystery channel here. However bad a comic Bana was, he's got a shot at making up for it as an actor. Though if he takes off from HULK, he may go the way of R Crowe.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 03:56 pm:   

How about the french movie made of Phil Dick's Confessions of a Crap Artist --I forget the title of the movie. Very dark --and strange.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

S. Hamm
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 05:04 pm:   

The French PDK adaptation was BARJO. Director Jerome Boivin also made BAXTER ("The Dog That Thinks!"), perhaps the only feature narrated by a pit bull.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:39 pm:   

lucius, it wouldn't be as, disappointing, i guess, as with crowe, who spent a lot of time working his before making it big. there are a lot of good films for crowe, and some bad ones too. (but ROMPER STOMPER is great, and hey, maybe even worth of the dark and gritty list? crowe plays a brutal skinhead in it. charismatic and nasty, a great performance, really.) bana as a serious actor has done a minute amount, while his bad comic days are long and large, and if he goes the way of (and i think hugh jackman is a better comparison) it, then it won't surprise me at all. i hope otherwise, but...

well. i'm cynical. what can i say?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Baxter
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:41 pm:   

"I loved Leolo! Especially when those kids gave that cat what it deserves!"
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

lampxter
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:42 pm:   

Razorback was a good Aussie horror flick.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Saturday, June 14, 2003 - 10:54 pm:   

Baxter? Is that the dog that thinks?

Ben, I've seen a good many of Crowe's Austtralian flicks, ROMPER STOMPER, PROOF, etc., and liked them, but I just think he's gone hollywoodstardomville and we won't see him acting too much anymore. Hope I'm wrong, 'cause he had some chops.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

ben peek
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 05:09 am:   

lucius, i thought crowe was pretty good in THE INSIDER, though i did think the film was flawed in certain structural ways. the films after that haven't been too good, though i can't say a thing about A BEAUTIFUL MIND as i didn't see it.

of course, then i remind myself of films like HEAVEN'S BURNING, and VIRTOUSITY, and THE QUICK AND THE DEAD and i think, well, maybe the bad already outweighed the good...

but still, you never know. i don't have much faith in MASTER AND COMMANDER, but that could just be the title.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Lucius
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 06:14 am:   

Ben,

A while back Crowe was signed up to do a circus movie with Jodie Foster in which he played a freak, but I don't know what happened to it. That gave me some hope, in that he seemed to be going away from straight leading man roles; but now...well, I guess as far as MASTER AND COMMANDER goes, I'm more in interested in how Paul Bettany shows. Bettany gave a pretty interesting performance in GANGSTER #1 and I've been looking for a movie he made with GANGSTER's director Paul McGuigan, THE RECKONING, which also features Brian Cox and Willem Dafore -- a medieval murder story. So far it hasn't shown up in Portland, sad to say.

Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 09:09 am:   

SHamm,
Yes Barjoe was the title.

I saw Crowe in both <i>Romper Stomper</> and Proof and knew nothing about him. I think I want to see both again now that he's made it big.

I thought he was very good in both The Insider and A Beautiful Mind even if the movies weren't. I like him as an actor but don't mind the hunk roles :-)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ellen
Posted on Sunday, June 15, 2003 - 09:10 am:   

SHamm,
Yes Barjoe was the title.

I saw Crowe in both Romper Stomper and Proof and knew nothing about him. I think I want to see both again now that he's made it big.

I thought he was very good in both The Insider and A Beautiful Mind even if the movies weren't. I like him as an actor but also in the hunk roles :-)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Andrew Fuller
Posted on Monday, September 01, 2003 - 10:39 pm:   

Lucius, Nekromantik is available at Movie Madness (surley you know about this treasure trove in our area?). I watched it more than 10 years ago. Haven't seen the sequel (although the final frame should have been left alone, i think). Saw another flick by Buttgereit, i think it was Der Todesking (about a chain of suicide letters).

Also, I found a great many movies (you & others have mentioned here) in the local library system. Just finished Peeping Tom (awesome), and have on hold Picnic at Hanging Rock, The Last Wave, Underground, Black Cat White Cat, and Spider, among others (a few of which I'd know about).

I'm sure you've seen these, but some of my favorite dark movies would include Man Bites Dog, Heathers, One Hour Photo.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mahesh
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2003 - 09:25 pm:   

Hello,

I'm not sure if he qualifies, but Neil LaBute's films can be dark at times. I also enjoyed Aguirre: The Wrath of God.

I read in 'The 3rd Alternative' about the films of Alejandro Jodorowsky. He did 'Fando y Lis', 'El Topo', 'Santa Sangre', and 'The Rainbow Thief', among others. The plots apparently defy description, but they sound dark, to say the least...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

bryan scott cederberg
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 02:58 pm:   

The best Jordorowsky film I've seen is HOLY MOUNTAIN. It contains some of the most psychedelic scenes put to film.

Another classic film that i didn't see mentioned is NIGHT OF THE HUNTER. A dark surreal fairy tale with glimmers of hope.

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:

Topics | Last Day | Last Week | Tree View | Search | User List | Help/Instructions | Log Out | Edit Profile | Register