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Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 08:55 am:   

After Bernard Hopkings whupped Antonio Tarver, I expected a bounce in his rating, but this tendency to rank him as a top five all time middleweight is ludicrous. He beat Tarver, who's only claim to fame is whupping a shot Roy Jones. And if Tarver's in the top five, where's that Jermaine Taylor. C'mon. Off the top of my head I can name ten middles he couldn't have beat, and I can think of fifteen more with whom he'd have been life and death. Guys like Carlos Monzon would have broken him in half. Stop it. Okay.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 10:09 am:   

Bernard is going to get overrated because a) any kind of all-time list is always slanted toward recent fighters fresher in the memory and b) writers will view him kindly as a "throwback" when considered against the current boxing landscape. I mean, any fighter who stays in one weight class as long as BHOP has looks like a titan in this age of musical divisions. Also, people will give him extra credit for the number of title defenses.

But, yeah, in a division so historically rich in talent, it wouldn't seem like he should be top ten and probably not top fifteen.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 10:32 am:   

Agree. The thing that gets me is he beat TARVER. Who lost to Glenn Johnson and a shot RJ before beating them. TARVER. Like I said, where's that put Jermaine.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 11:03 am:   

Right up there with Hagler and Cerdan and Ketchel, I guess. :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 11:09 am:   

Yup. One of the all-timers. Actually, I'm looking forward to Taylor-Wright. I think Jermaine might make his bones.
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PM
Posted on Monday, June 12, 2006 - 04:19 pm:   

Wink...Wink :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 05:49 am:   

Predictions-- Jermaine Taylor over Winky Wright by UD or late stoppage...

This means you should bet on Winky,,, :-)
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PM
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 04:30 pm:   

By all accounts Winky should lose. We'll find out if Winky has been underestimated...
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 05:14 pm:   

I've heard he hasn't been working in camp...
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 07:16 pm:   

Sitting here waiting for Wright-Taylor, watching two forty year olds fight on a fifty dollar ppv for the light heavy championship of the world....Is it any wonder boxing's in trouble in this country.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 08:43 pm:   

This is a great fight!
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 08:54 pm:   

A draw. Hell of a fight, though. Can't argue with a draw, really.
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PM
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 08:06 am:   

Winky gave away his win.

Taylor's strong punches kept him in the match. If Winky were as strong as Taylor he would have laid him out.

Winky was the agressor almost the entire fight. In the earlier rounds he was shaming Taylor with clean headshots.

Taylor had moments but his later opportunities were likely more a result of attrition than skill.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 08:35 am:   

And where did that attrition come from? From hard right hands. I had Taylor winning 115-113. Boxing is scored not on aggression, but on EFFECTIVE aggression. Those punchstat numbers are bullshit -- they're compiled by 2 20-somethings with their thumbs on buttons, and they record a lot of punches that are slipped or missed. Taylor made a lot of mistakes but he's young, he's going to do nothng but get better. And Winky knows that, that's why he doesn't want a rematch.

If Winky were as strong as Taylor he would have laid him out? If I was Godzila, I'd knock down Tokyo. He knew he wasn't as a strong going in, and by the later rounds, he couldn't employ his earlier strategy. He gave nothing away, he couldn't do any more than he did.

Let's give some credit to Taylor -- his last three fights he's fought two of the best P4P fighters in the sport and has more than held his own.
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PM
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 09:02 am:   

Winky gave away the 12th. He listened to his corner that said before the 12th, "Punch and get out. Step back." Excessively, he stepped back.

Yes, Taylor is young and clearly not as experienced as Winky. However, I'd suggest that Taylor takes unnecessary risks. It wasn't until nearly the end that he would actually put his hands up and block.

Obviously we should expect Winky to be more experienced. But what's the greater glory? I'd say beating the stronger man.

As far as the rematch goes, Winky said he didn't want a rematch in Taylor's hometown. In other words he wants to fight in neutral territory.

And I do give credit to Taylor for fighting good opponents. Time will tell if his body can handle the needless punches he's taken. One wonders how that eye is going to hold up in the future.
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PM
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 09:06 am:   

"Is it any wonder boxing's in trouble in this country."

The announcers aren't helping either.

Roy Jones, Jr. and Lewis ---blah!
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:07 am:   

You're not listening, man, or watching. Winky's corner told him go out there and fight. Winky had been wearing down the last few rounds and they knew he needed it. Watch the fight again,you'll hear the instructions clearly. Winky didn't follow them because he was spent and Taylor was still dangerous. Winky said flat he didn't want a rematch and Memphis is not Taylor's home town, not even his home state. And you know what Lou Dibella, Taylor's manager, said? He said, Fine. We're taking an optional for our next defense anyway. On my boxing board, which has a number of fighters, fight professionals (cut men, etc.) and boxing historians, they gave a slight edge to Taylor and the revered Hank Kaplan thought Taylor took the last seven rounds.

Further evidence that you weren't there, Roy Jones hasn't been near an HBO mike for a year. :-) But the HBO announcers have always sucked.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:10 am:   

As to Taylor's future, he's not going be fighting Winky Wrght every time out and I expect Steward will deal with those mistakes.
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PM
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:39 am:   

In the interview after the fight, Winky tells Merchant that he was robbed of the fight and that he isn't going to rematch with Taylor in what he considers to be Taylor friendly country.

Somehow the HBO announcers interpret this as Winky won't rematch. That's not what he said. Now whether Winky's rationale is valid or not is another question altogether. But if you take him at face value he's saying that he'll rematch in neutral territory.

As the instructions before the 11th round, I recall Winky being told to punch and get out. Which Winky sort of did except he spent too much time getting out of range.

Taylor's eye was practically sealed shut. Winky had to know it. Taylor knew he couldn't defend himself effectively. Winky knew it as well.

Taylor and others would have gone for the kill. Taylor says as much after the fight, "I would have fought for 12 rounds."

Some may suggest that Winky was out of steam and that he couldn't do anymore than he did. Sure he had diminished during the later rounds. We'll just have to disagree. But even Taylor was acknowledging that Winky held back on the 12th.

Clearly Winky thought he won the fight and probably by a larger margin than those watching. After the decision he storms out of the ring and is clearly upset. He thought he was cheated.
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PM
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:45 am:   

With all due respect to experts the fact has been that they've been wrong.

Winky wasn't destroyed.

Hopkins won.

Jeff was punched in the face Lacy, etc.

---and my comment about Jones, Jr. was that he wasn't a swell commentator. I'm aware that he wasn't part of the HBO crew with Taylor/Wright.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 11:05 am:   

Winky wasn't destroyed, just beaten. A draw can't be called a robbery. Hopkins won? What? If you're saying he beat Taylor, don't be silly.

The experts have been wrong before, but never all of them at once.

Winky thinks he's better than he is. Like many fighters who have unpleasing styles and haven't made a lot of money for most of their careers, he's gotten a big head late in life and behaved unprofessionally by stomping out. It's Taylor who behaved like a professional. Winky'll be begging for a rematch as soon as he shakes off that concussion -- Taylor's the only place he can make any money.

Taylor may have said that Winky held back, he wasn't asked if Winky was spent. They're two different things. Winky was gassed and that's why he held back.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 06:48 am:   

A good, close, entertaining, see-saw fight. I give Wright a lot of credit for accomplishing as much as he did (but Taylor's eye was the result of a butt, was it not?). I think the fight played out pretty much the way we knew it would: Wright getting some things done tactically early in the fight, showing a good jab and great defense, the younger, stronger Taylor breaking him down with big shots late in the bout. Did not expect Wright to give away 12, though. I expected a good young, big man to beat a good, older little man. Don't think anyone -- least of all Winky -- could get TOO upset over the result.

Is there any doubt that this fight will be rematched, despite Wright's gamesmanship? Good as he is, his style is dull as dishwater. Where else is he going to make the kind of payday a Taylor rematch offers him?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 08:23 am:   

All i know is, they've got to give this kid an easy defense. DiBella wanted to give him one before Winky, but they forced his hand. I doubt they'll force his hand this time. I don't know about a rematch. Winky is startiing to slip, and Taylor is going to be better. The money may not mean as much to Winky as not getting his ass handed him. If it does take place, it won't be til next year.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:33 am:   

Taylor does deserve an easy defense.

Wright may have his pride, but he's one of those guys who has been real, real good for a real, real long time and, only in the last couple of years has started to make any real money. I would say the guy is entitled to one last, big payday if he wants it and Taylor would give it to him. With his skills, I could not imagine him taking too much punishment, no matter how good Taylor gets in a year.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:43 am:   

I think he took some serious punishment this fight. But hey, there's no doubt taylor would fight him again.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 02:34 pm:   

Potentially great fight tomorrow. Two unbeaten prospects, Joel Julio (27-0, 24 KOs) v Carlos Quintana (22-0, 18 kos), the winner to fight for the title. This is the kind of fight you don't see anymore, but that used to be relatively commonplace, two young, powerful contenders. There is also a heavyweight fight.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, June 23, 2006 - 02:37 pm:   

Oh, yeah. They're welterweights.

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