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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 05:54 pm:   

   By Rich Patterson on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:48 am:

Impressions on a Dylan bio flick directed by Todd Haynes?
Loved Still Crazy.
   By Lucius on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:52 am:

Haven't seen it. But Haynes might do a good job.
   By Rich Patterson on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:07 pm:

Thought you might have heard rumours about it. It's still listed as in pre-production on imdb. The plot outline - "Ruminations on the life of Bob Dylan, where seven characters embody a different aspect of the musician's life and work." - sounds like all his movies! Difference this time is the characters are all women. Working title "I'M NOT THERE: Suppositions on a Film Concerning Dylan".
   By Lucius on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:10 pm:

Gee, I don't really like that idea. That sounds way too....how shall I say it? Bullshit intellectual. I
   By Rich on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:25 pm:

Yup.
   By Rich on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:32 pm:

Cate Blanchett, Charlotte Gainsbourg, Julianne Moore, etc. as Dylan.
   By StephenB on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:40 pm:

What the fuck?
   By Dave G. on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:45 pm:

I think Haynes is showing a definite narrowing of perspective and an atrophying of range by not having at least one crustacean Dylan, one flightless bird Dylan, and one coniferous tree Dylan. Restricting Sir Bob to one gender of a single species is a slap in the face to Dylanophiles everywhere. For shame, Mr. Haynes!!

Personally, I'm waiting for LIKE A ROLLING STONE: Bob Dylan as Igneous Rock by the National Geographic Society.
   By Lucius on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:00 pm:

Dave said it for me.
   By Rich on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:38 pm:

Nice one, Dave
   By StephenB on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:50 pm:

I'd rather see a documentary of him on tour. I saw him live once. He played mostly his new rocky blues stuff.
   By Rich on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:02 pm:

StephenB: You'll get your chance next month. NO DIRECTION HOME directed by Martin Scorsese. PBS debut. CD and DVD tie in. And be sure to grab a Dylan coffee and CD from Starbucks on the way home from work.
   By Lucius on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:06 pm:


   By StephenB on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 02:23 pm:

Scorsese? Noo!
   By Yasmine on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 03:10 pm:

>>Thanks, Yasmine. I appreciate it, Is there any supernatural element in The Skeleton Key?

There is some supernatural element and they do talk about Hoodoo, which i thought was interesting. It touches on the whole: "if you don't believe in it, then it can't affect you" and how "it's all in the mind" debate.
   By Lucius on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 03:21 pm:

Thanks again. I was looking to review it and now I will. Sounds interesting indeed.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 06:05 pm:   

Just saw Eye Of God, a stripped down minimalist thriller set in a small Oklahoma town, that follows four characters and four timelines to a violent conclusion--the kind of thing Ray Carver might have writ if he'd met Ray Chandler at an impressionable age. Marcia Plimptom, Kevin Anderson, a very young Nick Stahl, and Hal Holbrook. It's a solid little movie, nominated for the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:20 am:   

Whoops, I did it again...

My biggest Dylan regret was finding Canadian videotapes of HARD RAIN, the Rolling Thunder doc that aired on network TV in the 70s and then vanished from sight, and EAT THE DOCUMENT, the never-released Pennebaker doc of the 1966 Dylan-Band tour, on eBay and not bidding on them.

I would love to see either of those works. I think HARD RAIN is one of the most underrated rock records ever.

Speaking of Nick Stahl and Martha Plimpton, has anyone seen a terrific Christopher Munch film called THE SLEEPYTIME GAL with a surprisingly good Jackie Bissett?
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:48 am:   

I saw Sleepytime Gal, but I'd forgotten it til you mentioned it. I thought it was all right.

Not big on rockumentaries.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 01:47 pm:   

Anyone seen the Van Sant Cobain movie?
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 01:54 pm:   

No, no desire. I haven't liked anything he's done since Drugstore Cowboy, really.

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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 02:26 pm:   

I don't think I'll bother with the Scorsese doc.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:14 pm:   

One the best martial arts films of recent years is Arahan. Now the director has made a new movie starring Chin Sik Moi, the actor from Old Boy, entitled Crying Fist. I just ordered it. Gonna be the first on my block....
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MarcL
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:40 pm:   

Salles's next movie: On the Road.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/4748009.stm
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:46 pm:   

Cool, I don't mind Coppola.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:51 pm:   

What!?

Just read the article. Fucking Shumacher! Brad Pitt!

This is going to be shit.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:54 pm:   

I did kinda like Tigerland, though.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:57 pm:   

Brad Pitt and Schumacher WERE attached to the project
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:09 pm:   

Oh, okay, Salles. Even better. I'm groggy and didn't read carefully...
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:10 pm:   

I just saw Coppola, then scrolled down and saw Macher and Pitt.:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:23 pm:   

Groggy, Stephen?

What up? :-)
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kellys
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:11 pm:   

I wonder if Coppola will ever get enough teeth in his head to ever actually direct a movie again? Next to Orson Welle's final 15 years of emptiness, I can't think of a greater disappointment in cinema (OK, Cimino and Arthur Penn deserve runner-up mentions).
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:18 pm:   

What was his last movie? Jack, with Robin Williams? We may be lucky he stopped. Orson Welles's decline was, at least, not self-imposed.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 08:19 pm:   

I think he's doing a Utopia, or something.
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Rich
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 04:17 am:   

Dave G.: You didn't miss anything not getting EAT THE DOCUMENT. It's a terrible film about Dylan’s ‘66 British tour, when he “went electric”, shot by Pennebaker (who disowns it) and edited in stream of consciousness style by Dylan himself for network TV (who refused to air it). It's frustrating to watch because every time there's a classic bit of Dylan on stage it lasts for about a minute and then cuts to someone stumbling down a train corridor or Bob staring out a window or something. Supposedly, there exists a Pennebaker cut of the film more in the style of DON’T LOOK BACK. My guess is that Scorsese has acquired the unedited concert film and is using it as bait to sell NO DIRECTION HOME. But will he flog it in more generous helpings than Dylan? Hard to predict.

I say proceed directly to disc 2 of The Bootleg Series, Vol. 4: Bob Dylan Live, 1966: The "Royal Albert Hall Concert".
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Stephen
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:37 pm:   

Dave,

and anyone else.

http://www.worldscreen.com/newscurrent.php?filename=idt715.htm
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Robert
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 03:24 pm:   

I joined NicheFlix to watch some imports. First up were Arahan and Fighter in the Wind. Both were good, but Arahan was more enjoyable. I'll definitely check out the other films by Ryu Sung-Wan.

I hope I'll be able to see the Russian DVD of Night Watch soon
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 03:28 pm:   

There's another film by Ryu-sung-wan called Volcano High, which is supposed to be very good. I haven't yet seen it myself...
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:10 pm:   

There is now a director's cut of Eyes Wide Shut, which just goes to show that all that hoo-ha Cruise and Pollack put out about how the master's work was untouched was BS. You can pre-order through DIabolik, perhaps elsewhere.
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PM
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:46 am:   

If we're looking at the same thing this version is described as having the "naughty bits". Based on what I've read these were cuts taken from the orgy.

For some reason I always thought Spielberg had a hand in it at the end...

At any rate there's a lesson here. Don't die before it's done because there's no telling what can happen.

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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 06:48 am:   

I hope there are more than a few extra naughty bits in the director's cut of EWS. If that's the only reason to see it, I'll pass.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:01 am:   

The naughty bit are the parts that get all the press. There's likely to be more...
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:36 am:   

I kept waiting for something extraordinary to happen in that movie, but there was just zip. I thought the lack of chemistry between Cruise and Kidman was kind of alarming.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:44 am:   

Well, I basically agree, but I got to watch.this version to see how right I was about post-mortem intervention...
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:26 am:   

Spent last evening watching two of my underappreciated favorites, OUT FOR JUSTICE (which we have discussed at some length) and 1992's CANDYMAN, based on a Clive Barker short story and directed by Bernard Rose, whose touching and creative 1988 film PAPERHOUSE has been all but forgotten these days. Oh yeah, and board fave Virginia Madsen at her cutest and most psychotic! I think CANDYMAN was overlooked in its day and stands up fairly well as a genre picture...fairly novel plot, OK script, a good lead performance by the eminently likable Madsen. Definitely worth rediscovering, IMHO.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:41 am:   

I just bought Tropical Malady, a That flick about a Park Ranger who comes to beleve that a certain visitor to the park is a shape-shifter.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:05 am:   

I'll definitely watch EYES WIDE SHUT Director's Cut, since I've been meaning to watch the film again anyway. There were some powerful scenes in there that did not add up. I thought the scene where Cruise was at the bedside of the dying person and that woman was hitting on him was extremely good. I couldn't figure out why so much of the movie just felt completely lifeless. The characters in 2001 are no less puppetlike and stiff than Cruise and Kidman, yet the movie contains their performances perfectly. This ought to be interesting.

I read the memoir of the script's author, talking about working with Kubrick in those final days, but I believe it came out before the movie was released and there was no discussion of the finished film.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 11:17 am:   

I'm sure it was fucked with, and I think Sydney Pollack may have had a hand--I sensed his heavy handed touch in the scenes he was featured in,
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:18 pm:   

I'd like to see the director's cut too. I liked EWS. Although it's midrange Kubrick for me. Not as good as say, A Clockwork Orange, but better than 2001.

Dave, I remember Candyman from when I was 11. It made me tempted to say candyman in the mirror three times and see what happens.:-) Didn't like it as much as Hellraiser.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:24 pm:   

Stephen, nothing would happen if you said it three times. You've got to say it FIVE times!

Well, not much ranks up there with the first two Hellraisers...
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:29 pm:   

Oh, it's five. I guess that's why it never worked...

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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:30 pm:   

I hat ed Hellraiser! Candyman's way better, For one thing, Clive didn't (mis)direct it.
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:33 pm:   

Nope, Hellraiser was scarier. I saw it a year before Candyman.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:56 pm:   

Helllraiser may have been scarier (not for me), but it was way cheesier, being full of all these arty camera angle straight out of the Art School How 2 Direct book that Clive was using.
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:11 pm:   

Well, when I saw it first, I was ten, and it was scary. From the intellectualized point of view of an experienced adult movie watcher, this may be different..

Sure, Clive was an amateur director. Is that always a bad thing?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:17 pm:   

Generally, yes.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:41 pm:   

I can see how someone familiar with a broad spectrum of film would not have been impressed by it. But fans of a genre that has traditionally trafficked in the most shopworn, beige cliches and the most artless filmmaking butchery, it was a breath of fresh air to see someone -- anyone -- try to do something a bit different, a bit stranger. A bit, yeah, artsier.

I'll grant you that they have milked the franchise to death, and that H1 features one of the stupidest, tacked-on, focus-group endings of all time, but come on...the Cenobites were cool! As you said, weirder isn't always better...but the flipside of that sentiment is equally true. Sometimes, it is!
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:04 pm:   

That was my review, Dave. The Cenobites were cool. :-)

I went eagerly to see Hellraiser and fled the theater afterward for a bar, I was so disappointed.
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kellys
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:56 pm:   

The more film I see the more I "am" impressed with the first Hellraiser (there are few films that even attempt to be original, in or out of genre, much less actually are). Too bad Universal didn't give Barker the green light for Tortured Souls, which promised to be a return to Hellraiser-style of film-making.

Not only were the Cenobites cool, but so were the indelible images of a flayed Uncle Frank, a blood-spattered, mirror-reflected Julia, and Alan Moore...er, the guy with the beard, turning into a demon.

I'll admit, it is rough around the edges, but that's part of its charm, as is Clive's artsy, Dario Argento/Mario Bava-inspired photography. I wouldn't trade Hellraiser for any horror movie made since it debuted.

But heck, Barker was my introduction to horror and fantasy fiction, on the page and screen, so I suppose I'm a bit biased.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:17 pm:   

The thing is, Hellraiser was nothing but images,the story was sophomoric, a goth wet dream, but to each his own. I thing Argento and Bava are seriously overrated hacks, so Clive's influences were not to my taste. I've seen countless horror films I've thought were better than Hellraiser. For one, I just got the uncut version of Dust Devil, which IMO blows Barker away. Ever seen Deathbed? Though formulaic, a very original vision. Oh, well...
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kellys
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 07:57 pm:   

I've never seen Dust Devil or Deathbed, but will look them up and check them out. Thanks for the recommendations. Any other contemporary horror films that outshine Hellraiser?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:22 pm:   

You must look for the 107 minute British version of Dust Devil, and Death Bed is subtltled The Bed That Eats. The uncut version of DD is not good.

As you may guess, I'm not really into the Grand Guignol stuff like Barker, though I have my favorites in that subgenre, like the Spanish thriller The Bell From Hell. I like the Aussie film In The WInter Dark, which is psychological horror. Have you checked out the Diabolik site. It;s awesome for horror.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:47 pm:   

Marc, have you seen Tzu Hark's first film, the Butterfly Murders? It's prett y cool. Made in 1979, about a writer and his girl who take refuge in a caste to escape murderous butterflies.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 09:20 pm:   

There are a Handful of Harks I've never seen and that's one of them.

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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 01:57 am:   

At long last got Oz, Season 4, and tore through the first three episodes tonight.
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ben peek
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 04:39 am:   

just out of curiosity, how much of a director's cut will EYES WIDE SHUT be since kubrick's long dead? i'd be curious to check it, but i'm kinda wary of directors cuts by dead directors, y'know?
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 05:12 am:   

Well, Ben, it's a British release, so there's some possibility. I get yr point, but one hopes.

Marc, there;s a new Mei Ah DVD of the Butterfly Murders,and it's good.
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Adam-Troy
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 05:37 am:   

A "director's cut" by a director long dead is not entirely unprecedented. Remember, the re-release of TOUCH OF EVIL, years after the loss of Orson Welles. And just a couple of years ago, we had a partially restored GREED, by Erich Von Stroheim.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:22 am:   

I've got to get horror hunting. Thanks for those recos, Lucius. And what was the name of that David Caruso movie you liked? It was "Session" Something, wasn't it?
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kellys
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:23 am:   

Diabolik looks like a good website, providing another reason why I need a region free DVD player. Death Bed and The Bell From Hell are both readily available in region 1 at reasonable prices; an Amazon reviewer warns that the latter is a truncated version. Is The Bell From Hell region 1 disc worth checking out?
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:36 am:   

Dave, you'd love Diabolik. Demented Discs from all over the world. Check it out. And that's Session Nine.

Kelly, I haven't seen the region 1 disc. There's no reason not to have an all region player. You can get one for 70 bucks.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 06:52 am:   

I noticed I inadvert ently said that the uncut version of Dust Devil is no good; obviously I meant the opposite -- the 107 minute uncut version is the only one to see.
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kellys
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 07:27 am:   

$70! OK, this is probably lazy of me: where the heck can I order one for this price?
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 07:33 am:   

Somebody bought me mine --- I think they just went into Circuit City. But let me check. I'll get back to you.
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kellys
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 07:58 am:   

Thanks Lucius. For some reason I didn't think stores like Circuit City and Best Buy sold these. I may be wrong though.

I read a bit about Death Bed. Both the movie and its history sound incredible (the way it surfaced in Britain in the late 80s as a stolen bootleg).

The way it was made sounds a bit like Lemora. What did you think of that movie?
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kellys
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:06 am:   

Amazon marketplace has got them for as low as $42, new. I don't think any major American retailers sell region-free players; that would undermine the Hollywood studio system! :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 08:13 am:   

I thought it was campy, but impossible to dismiss as campy because it was such a unique story. And yeah, there's a kind of similarity between Lemora and Death Bed, sorta like deranged cousins....
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Robert
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:07 am:   

I got my DVD player from BestBuy. I had to order online, as they don't stock it in the store. I think my model is Philips DVP642, but I'm not positive. I did need to enter a code to make it region free, you can find that in the Amazon customer reviews.

I guess I need to track down the uncut Dust Devil. I saw the US edit, and didn't think it was bad.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:23 am:   

My DVD guy hasn't gotten back to me, but I recall now it was Target where bought it. Mine's a Phillips, too.

You need that DD uncut version.
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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:52 am:   

All you have to do is buy a cheapo Daewoo DVD player at Target or wherever, then it's painless to unlock the region coding by typing a few numbers into your remote control. There are online sites that tell you exactly how to hack them depending on model number. See which ones are available in your local store, google the model number and you'll find full instructions. I'm completely not tech savvy and I did it armed with nothing but Google.
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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:54 am:   

Also, although cheap, the Daewoo players are of fine quality. Better than some more expensive players I've owned. I've got the 5200S model which is a couple years old now.

Repeat: The region coding is software only, not hardwired, and it's a breeze to disable it.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 10:19 am:   

Thank you, Marc.

I don't know if we had to decode the Phillips or not. But I can also recommend the Daewoo, having had the 100 dollar model for serveral years.
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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 01:24 pm:   

Anyone seen the Korean film - Mokpo, Gangsters Paradise?

How about Oasis?

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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 02:14 pm:   

Is Mokpo a comedy? I may have seen it--at least I saw a movie with Mokpo in the title, but it wasn't good. Then again I don't like Korean comedies.

Have heard about Oasis, but haven't seen it, Sounds fairly perverse, but intriguing. Not sold on Korean romances, either.
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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 09:14 pm:   

Looks like Mokpo is a comedy about gangsters. This'll probably go back to the library unwatched because I've got to get through Oz.

I couldn't really get into ATTACK THE GAS STATION, actually--part of it was the broad comic nature of the thing, reminiscent of slapdash Hong Kong comedies but without some of their (for lack of a better word) charm. I've been spoiled by some of these higher production quality pictures, most of them dramas.

OASIS looks glossy. We'll see.
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ben peek
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:11 am:   

adam-troy,

yeah, there is a precedent for the dead director's cut, but in the case of TOUCH OF EVIL (which is a film i quite like) i was under the impression that it was more of a 'this is a close to welles' original vision as we can get without raising him up and having his zombie cut the film.'

which, you know, would have been cool.
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MarcL
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 11:33 am:   

I followed that link to EYES WIDE SHUT but couldn't see that it was anything other than an unexpurgated (naughty bits restored) version...but it was a Spanish edition, and there was no word about it being a Director's Cut. In regard to TOUCH OF EVIL, I thought they had documents heavily annotated by Welles to indicate what he'd wanted in the first place. Seems unlikely Kubrick would have had time to prepare such documents; he never saw a final cut, from what I understand, and so wouldn't have been able to digest it. Still, maybe there was a close to final version that someone else took over and screwed up (for instance, in Lucius's theory, Sidney Pollack). I haven't encountered any discussion of this outside this thread though, so...I'm still confused.

I have only seen the "remixed" TOUCH OF EVIL, but it instantly became one of my favorite movies. Talk about influential. I couldn't believe how many of my favorite films, made afterwards, were derivative of this one. David Lynch and Barry Gifford cribbed heavily.
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:01 pm:   

I saw SKELETON KEY on the small screen and thought it was pretty good. It has a wonderfully unwholesome atmosphere to it. I could imagine the story taking place just down the road from Grail, Louisiana. Gena Rowlands is great.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:13 pm:   

Thanks, Rich.....
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Night Shade Books
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 03:16 pm:   

Check out www.xploitedcinema.com. I love them. Only time I ever use Diabolik is if it's something Xploited doesn't have. Xploited is usually the cheapest. Last time I checked, they have the uncut Dust Devil disc for $16.95.
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:44 pm:   

Returning to Kubrick.

Just picked up the Kubrick Archives --- it weighs at least 14 pounds. It's a book designed for yesterday's coffee tables.

One of the things that really motivated me to purchase it was the 12 frames from Kubrick's print of 2001.

As one would imagine it's chocked full of pictures and whatnot.

And so I read through the whatnot on Eyes Wide Shut. If the article is to believed the only changes that were made were that robes were digitally put on the figures in the orgy scene.

Supposedly no cuts were made that Kubrick didn't make himself...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:19 pm:   

Well, I don't believe it. There was some bad editing in that flick, and prior to it his films were edited meticulously.....
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:40 pm:   

What's also interesting is that supposedly he was very happy with how the film turned out...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:46 pm:   

Again, I don't think he saw the cut that was released...
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:56 pm:   

Agreed. By that time his wide eyes were shut...

Any excitement for the Brothers Grimm?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:02 pm:   

I'm more excited by his other movie, Tideland. which is apparently the one he's excited about. From all reports, Grimm is Terry Gilliam-lite.
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:30 pm:   

Traumatized child chatting with Barbies aka Tideland...It may very well be wonderful but I don't know if I want to go through this...reluctantly I'll see it...


SciFi mentioned that he was going to try and take another swing at Quixote...



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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:40 pm:   

Well, reluctantly I'll see Grimm and Matt fucking Damon. Much rather see trauma barbies and Janet McTeer....
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:48 pm:   

Not expecting the Bourne Grimm Supremacy...it's all retread but Gilliam and Burton can bring a little bit to the table...But the subject is about as compelling as a live action Winnie the Pooh.

Yeah, Chris Rock as Tigga...it drolls the imagination.

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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 01:24 am:   

The previews of Grimm kind of made it look overly slick and disappointing. I'll still see it though.

But yeah, I think Tideland will be really good. I hope he makes the Quixote movie.
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MarcL
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 05:39 pm:   

I can't understand why they bother to give Matt Damon a fake English accent when there are actors with actual English accents available. That was the first thing that depressed me about the Grimm trailer. The rest looks rehashed as well...it reads like a competitor to VAN HELSING. It'll be fun to see it with the kids, I suppose.

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kellys
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:14 pm:   

Gilliam has always been a tentative storyteller, too beholden to Hollywood dictates to follow through on his visions (except with the Brazil director's cut). Once again, his uncertainly shines through in this latest interview, making it hard for me to be too optimistic about Tideland (though I am looking forward to it).

http://www.smart.co.uk/dreams/tgint05.htm
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:41 pm:   

I think Grimm will be okay, better than VAN H. As to why give Damon a Brit accent....Just try and stop him. It's called acting, Marc. :-)

I'm more optomistic about Tideland than you, kelly. But then I like more Gilliam than you.
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:34 pm:   

I'm watching SONG OF BERNADETTE here and it's making me really nauseous. Did you ever notice how Jennifer Jones looks a lot like Susan Dey? And her last name is Jones, which is Shirley Partridge's real name, isn't it? I suspect that Jennifer Jones is Susan Dey's grandmother.

Time for some sleep.
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 01:35 am:   

Kellys: I loved your review of Abimagique. Well done. I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of Terry Gilliam as a "tentative storyteller" though. I think TIME BANDITS, BARON MUNCHHAUSEN, and (your own exception) BRAZIL, are all examples of exceptional storytelling. 12 MONKEYS and FISHER KING are pretty cool stories too, but less successful movies.
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 02:42 am:   

Hey Lucius, I don’t know if the story behind the movie KARLA (based on the killing spree of Paul and Karla Bernardo) was news in your part of the world when it happened 12 years ago but it sure was for me, living in the same small Ontario town where the murders occurred. Have your heard anything, good or bad, about the upcoming Canadian-indie film, KARLA?

http://www.cbc.ca/story/arts/national/2005/08/12/Arts/08122005karlareview.html
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 07:27 am:   

I recall the murders -- I was tied in to Detroit then, and so got a lot of Canadian news. But I hadn't heard about the movie.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 07:59 am:   

Watched CRYING FIST last night, from the director of Arahan. Not a martial arts movie, though. A movie about boxing, it follows the paths of two men, one a delinquent, Sang-hae, and the other, Tae Sik. a silver medalist in the 1990 Asian games who earns his living on the streets of Seoul as a human punching bag, allowing people to hit him as a stress relief or to get out their grief or whatever. Though the ending is overly dramatic, the path these two men take to redeem their lives is compelling and idiosyncratic. The use of music is brilliant throughout.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 08:01 am:   

Meant to say, overly melodramatic....
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kellys
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 09:57 am:   

Thanks Rich, it was a fun story to review.

I agree, Gilliam has done some other good stuff besides Brazil, and I'm probably being too critical and have actually enjoyed more of his films than I'm letting on.

Crying Fist -- just another reason to purchase that all-region code DVD player. It's gotten a lot of good reviews around the web, and won some special award at Cannes (not that that means anything).

First trailer for Masters of Horror here:

http://www.mastersofhorror.net/

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T Andrews
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:04 am:   

Hi Rich.
I think Karla Homolka is evil incarnate; I'm not sure how I feel about the movie, and the Montreal film fest's decision to pull it.
I'd be interested to know your feelings on it since you were so close to the scene.
Will you watch it?
Lucius, it's a highly-charged issue up here. There's a lot of ground that could be intelligently covered but I doubt this particular movie does that.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:48 am:   

It's got a great first two and a half acts, man.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 10:50 am:   

That was in reference to Crying Fist.

As for Karla, didn't I read or see that she was gonna be eligible for parole?
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T Andrews
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 04:35 pm:   

She's free as of a couple weeks ago, and probably living in Quebec, where the whole thing had less of an impact. The next best place for her to live would be on an iceberg up north, as she is the most reviled Canadian at the moment...if not of all time.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 05:28 pm:   

Wow. How the hell did she get out?

More reviled than Michael J Fox? :-)
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Robert
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 06:24 pm:   

I saw Night Watch today. It was good, but had some flaws. The subtitles really needed work, but since it was the Russian edition, I assume they'll clean them up when it's released here. I also felt like there was a lot of backstory that was missing, like things covered in the original book, but they only glossed over it in the film. Maybe the subtitles could help with this, or a bit of an edit.

I also feel I can't judge it entirely until I watch the sequels. I thought the Matrix was enjoyable fluff, but hated the sequels. And the less said about the Star Wars prequels, the better. The Matrix and SW, the bad sequels colored my opinions of the originals, leaving me little or no enjoyment in them, or more correctly, making me realize how bad the originals were.

Because of these, I fear the larger story won't get the complete treatment I hope it will.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 13, 2005 - 06:47 pm:   

Yes, they clean them up. In fact, as mentioned before, they pop them out in the midst of the frame, instead of running them under the picture. They also did a new edit which supposedly help with continuity.
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 07:55 pm:   

Regarding Karla’s release from jail: She cut a deal with the Crown, pleading battered woman syndrome and agreeing to testify against Bernardo, in exchange for a 10 or 11 year sentence. This of course was just before her lawyer happened to discover home films that the couple had made of the murders that didn’t exactly paint her as innocent. Meanwhile in jail, she got her B.A., learned a second language, and counseled her peers. EVERYBODY in my town felt she got off too light. She was released about two weeks ago.

Regarding KARLA’s release: Actually, I’m pretty sure the families of the murdered girls will succeed in stopping distribution of the film in Canada, as the Premier of Ontario has already praised the Montreal World Film Festival for scraping the film's debut, and seems to be fighting on their behalf. Of course, people who want to see it will be able to do so through other channels.

T: I would love nothing more than to hear it was a shitty movie.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:10 pm:   

Thanks, Rich....
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005 - 08:36 pm:   

T: I avoided your question... Will I watch it? I remember driving by a lake near my house as the cops were fishing for table saw blades and body parts. I sure don't need to see it if it works only on the level of a "movie of the week", which is I suspect all it does.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 06:37 am:   

Saw Herzog's excellent GRIZZLY MAN and THE ARISTOCRATS this weekend. GM was really superb. Alternately awe-inspiring, creepy, pathetic and depressing. Herzog really uses this guy's film to constuct a probing psychological portrait of a vulnerable, damaged, ultimately foolish idealist and his tragic end. I would highly recommend it. ARISTOCRATS had the second-highest number (SHOWGIRLS being the first) of walkouts I've seen at a movie (7). It was good fun, but a bit much after a while. The real fun was seeing old-time funnymen like 70s TV fixture Chuck McCann plying their trade. Good for a subversive giggle.
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RObert
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:01 am:   

I'm definitely looking forward to the US release of Night Watch. I am very interested to see that style of subtitles.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:08 am:   

Did Herzog begin Grizzly Man before the guy's death, or is it all archival footage.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:24 am:   

I think it's all archival footage. He does not interview Treadwell directly. It's most told in reminiscences and Treadwell's recovered video footage. It's still pretty damn affecting, though, and not in a sentimental way, either. Herzog contrasts this guy's almost looney insistence on being "one of" the bears with his observation that nature is all about death and predation.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:33 am:   

Well, he's one with one of them, that's for sure.
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Robert
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 07:48 am:   

Until I read some reviews, I hadn't realized I've seen this guy on Discovery Channel. I've seen some other stuff from other researchers who spend a lot of time with bears, only one other guy seems quite a far out there, and he went out with bears and returned to his house at night.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 08:00 am:   

As Ebert and Roeper pointed out, there is some very dark humor here...The guy went around giving these huge, ravenous, savage behemoths cute little Disney names like "Satin" and "Grinch" and talking to the camera as if he was a bear and hated the world of people...You got the sense he was severely unhinged and it was only a matter of time. He claimed to be protecting the bears, as if huge monstrous killers ensconced in a federal wildlife preserve needed his protection.
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:17 am:   

I think I'd really like that Grizzly Man flick. I'm going to try to watch more Herzog in general...
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 11:57 am:   

The guy who made the most sense in GM was the curator of the Native Aleut museum, who spoke about the barrier between man and wildlife that had existed for 7,000 years and how his people had respected it. Violate the barrier and pay the consequences. God only knows how many people seeing those videos might have been tempted to go play with the nice, cuddly bears and had their damfool heads ripped off.
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T Andrews
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 02:21 pm:   

Rich: Thanks for your perspective. I think you're right about the movie--it looks like it has all the depth of a movie-of-the-week.
If the movie painted her as the killer I believe her to be, then I would watch it. Which, I suppose makes me a hypocrite of some kind. Hitler was a bad man, but I've watched lots of war movies. But the Homolka case is so different.

Lately I've thought about Karla quite often, unfortunately.
Anyway, thanks for your take on it.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 10:04 pm:   

I read the recent batch of Ebert reviews and came away thinking Grizzly Man was the one I most wanted to watch. Still waiting to see Herzog's Loch Ness movie and the other fake-documentary he did about the village where people carve holes in the ice to see the future...or the past...or angels...

I have to admit the new Singleton movie is about the only thing in neighborhood theaters right now that I'm tempted to see for the hell of it. But I suspect I'll wait for the DVD.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 15, 2005 - 10:23 pm:   

Yeah, that Singleton's a real aut eur. Starts out with a lame remake of Cooley High and goes downhill from there. Who can forget Poetic Justice and Zebrahead? :-) I smell genius....or maybe that's just Markie Mark's deoderant. All kidding aside, having done a 10 spot in Detroit, I have no desire to see Singleton's lameass take on it.

Saw Box 507 tonight, a pretty cool Spanish Thrlller with a Chinatownish complexity. A bank manager survives a robbery and is locked in the vault and finds evidence in a drilled open safe deposit box relating to his daughter's mysterious death in a fire seven years before.
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T Andrews
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 05:45 am:   

Marc, Herzog's Loch Ness gets a little boring and underwhelmed me. However, after I watched it, I started to watch it again with the commentary feature on and it was hilarious!! The commentary had all the wit that the movie itself seemed to lack. In fact, given the nature of the movie, if you watch it as it is, sans commentary, you're only watching half of the story. So if you do give the movie a shot, try it with commentary, too.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:07 am:   

Lucius, got your package yesterday. Thanks much! I will probably watch it this week!
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:11 am:   

No problem, Dave....
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 05:26 pm:   

The way Dave describes Grizzly Man, it sounds awesome. I won't miss it. I just hope it stays true to the man and his work...
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 05:54 pm:   

The man was a loon! I'm sure it does.
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:03 pm:   

Or is he the sanest one of all...:-)

I don't know much about the man, no one's even mentioned his name, but maybe I've seen one of his docs because I've been an avid nature show watcher since I was really wee.

I just hope he isn't exploited, is all...
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:13 pm:   

So that's two things I would like. If it makes me mad or sad, I'll like it. It'd bother me, I guess, to see a theatre full of people mocking the crazy bear man and appluading Herzog's genius.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:21 pm:   

"You got the sense he was severely unhinged and it was only a matter of time. He claimed to be protecting the bears, as if huge monstrous killers ensconced in a federal wildlife preserve needed his protection."

I think, like Dave says, he was crazy. What was his work, Stephen? He was the Wild Man Fisher of eco-activism.
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Stephen
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:27 pm:   

Well, I like him.

I'll shut up 'till I see the movie.

Fisher?
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:32 pm:   

This streetperson who wrote songs that Zappa found and produced a couple of albums for --he basically gave off a vibe of being damaged and sad.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:36 pm:   

More from Dave -"Herzog really uses this guy's film to constuct a probing psychological portrait of a vulnerable, damaged, ultimately foolish idealist and his tragic end. "
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Stephen
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 06:46 pm:   

Yeah, but that makes me wonder if that's how Herzog wanted to portray him, for his film, missing out on some of his other qualities. I don't know though. Why was he foolish? Because he fought for something he loved? What's the message there?

But like I said. I should shut up untill I actually see it.

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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:07 pm:   

WHat was he fighting for? The bears live on federally protected land. They're vicious predators. They don't need some little guy holding their paw.
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:24 pm:   

Bears aren't vicious predators, first of all.

I think that's sort of a naive statement, saying big animals don't need human help. Tell that to the elephants and the white and black rhinos. See how they feel 'bout that.

He was fighting for the bears all througout the world... he just chose the bears who live in a park.:-) You'd be surprised how many people would try an' poach 'em. It doesn't matter that they're hulking behemoths, if someone's got a big ass gun. Maybe the bears are more like the Grizzly Man then you guys are ackowledging? Maybe what he was doing stood for something, which goes beyond his own conscious thought?

This is a picture I got, before you pointed out why he's foolish:

A family going to see it and after, the dad explaining to the children how "the Grizzly Man was crazy and that's not how you want to be, unless you want your life to end in tragedy too. It's best to live a sensible and regular life, just like everyone else. Sure, his life makes for a emotionally affecting movie, but he's ultimately a fool. You don't want to be a fool. Don't step out of the box -- don't be like him -- don't stand up and fight for something you love." And this would all be out of genuine love because the parent just wants their kids to be happy.

But yes, in reality he may have needed someone to save him more than the bears did...
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Stephen
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:25 pm:   

Tigers are also big predators, they should be able to take care of themselves, right?
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Stephen
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:29 pm:   

But I don;t know the guy. He may very well have been a crazy conservationalist who deluded himself into protecting what didn't need his protection when he could have been protecting animals that really did..
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 07:56 pm:   

It was Dave who pointed out the guy was bonkers, man....not me.

As far as I'm concerned, a grizzly is a vicious predator

Tigers....? Fuck the elephants. Fuck the black and white rhino. Fuck the spotted owl and the albino newt. Save the human race, I say. If the animals get to live too, cool. But I never met a tiger or a spotted gekko or whatever personally.

"He was fighting for the bears all througout the world...."

Yawn.

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Robert
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 08:17 pm:   

If he wanted to protect bears, that's fine. But camping in the wilderness with them isn't the way to do it. It habituates them to humans so they're more likely cause trouble with humans (breaking into houses or cars, attacking people). And that means the bears are more likely to be killed (by park rangers, or if the wander away, by other people).

I can't comment too much more until I see the film, but the stuff I saw on Discovery definitely gave the impression he was reckless.
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 08:27 pm:   

About that one line, I was joking.

I'll take Dave's word about the guy bein' bonkers. I'm sure the film's very telling.

As for your attitude 'bout endangered species. I can't say I like it, sir. Don't like it one bit. Animals are like children, they're innocent. Yes, there's also a lot of starving children and adults living in poverty out there that deserve help. But humanity has basically been a disease spreading across the earth, as you know. We's don't care who or what we exploit, it seems. As long as we get something out of it and it aleviates our fears. But the truth is, man. We need the animals, we need the trees. A world overrun by humans is a nightmare world, in my mind.

If you're going to have this myopic attitude about nature and wildlife,, well, go ahead... It may come from compassion of all the suffering people you've met, but like the Grizzly Man, it's misguided. Those people need wildlife just as much as you or I. In fact, in Africa -- wildlife is the best way a man can make money to support his family. It's the fucking British who raped both the people and the environment there, who are to blame. The stupid myopic people, who decided to build damns to reflow water to human settlements, who didn't stop to think that messing with nature that way would make it worse and cause further drought and desertification, who are to blame, as well. The people who thought that introducing nonnative species like eucalyptus plants would be a good thing, when really that paticular thirsty plant isn't meant for that environment and only caused more destruction.

Lucius, I have nothing but respect for you, man, but I can't respect that attitude. We need to learn how to live in harmony with nature -- I know it sounds cheesy. It's not a, it's either humanity or nature thing. It shouldn't be an us vs. them thing. We;re all part of one whole and it's mutually beneficial for everything to preserve the natural world.

If you really want to save the human race you should realize this. So far, we;ve flourished. If anything's gonna kill us, it's us.

Besides, there's a lot of beauty and wonder in nature that I know I wouldn't want to live in a world without.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 08:37 pm:   

Male tigers eat their cubs. Innocently, of course. So i can respect that.

Stephen, you gotta face facts. The animal kingdom is fucking doomed. Read Planet of Slums by Mike Davis, the seed of which can be found in this article....

http://www.newleftreview.net/NLR26001.shtml

The fortunate among us are going to be living in hermetically sealed domes ere long; the less fortunate....well, read the article.

We got a lot more to worry about than beauty.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 08:46 pm:   

Oh yeah, and it's way too late for harmony with nature.
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 16, 2005 - 08:53 pm:   

Male tigers don't eat their cubs, they kill other male tiger's cubs.

This reminds me of the Blake poem, The Tyger, from the Songs of Experience part.

Lucius, I've faced that fact, no -- that likely possibility -- since I was at least five, watching environment and nature shows. I cried about it and got really angry about it. I know all about how third world people couldn't care less about the environment, when they need to feed their families. That doesn't make the fact that both the animals and people are being fucked... They're both being fucked by the same source -- you know that. Civilization, the artificial machine that is society. This includes religious conditioning as well as political propaganda etc. We can try to help both, is what I'm saying.. It's not just one or the other.

Okay, I'll read the article...
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 09:09 am:   

Let me amplify a bit on how the Grizzly Man, Timothy Treadwell, was depicted in the movie:

I think that Treadwell's heart was in the right place, and I don't believe that Herzog disputes this. But Treadwell was clearly operating with some kind of emotional distress, which is hinted at (problems with drugs and the law, difficulty fitting into society, etc.) but never fully explained.

There are definitely touching moments between Treadwell and wild creatures, particularly a family of foxes that seem to have adopted him. But all in all, the movie portrays a guy who had a huge, gaping hole in his life and used nature to fill it, much in the same way that some folks use drugs, liquor, gambling, religion, sex, etc. His attachment seems somehow unhealthy. He's also using his lifestyle to settle some old grudges, like one he holds against the Park Service (who, one assumes, fired him).

There's no question that Treadwell is a good, decent, well-meaning person (there is some terrific footage of him working with schoolkids teaching them about wildlife conservation), but a bit unstable and a bit misguided. His dragging his girlfriend (who was afraid of bears) into the very dangerous "Grizzly maze" can be seen as a selfish and misguided act.

I agree with Stephen that endangered animals need protection from the encroachments of man, but the movies leaves open the question of whether Treadwell did more harm than good. At least one person points out that by acclimating the bears to humans, he may have opened the door for hazardous interactions later.

Sorry for being so flippant about this earlier. I didn't realize we had Treadwell fans on the board. Overall, the film treats him as a benign, but somewhat pathetic figure. Herzog isn't overly mean, but he takes a very cold and clinical view. Still, definitely worth seeing, especially for fans.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 01:45 pm:   

I wouldn't say I'm a Tim Treadwell fan, Dave. I hadn't really heard 'bout 'em, that i know of, 'till this thread. But, I can tell that I already like him and sympathize with him...

Thanks for that, Dave.
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:03 pm:   

As for that article, well, it's sickening. I already knew that the neoliberals were villains. The idea of more city than anything -- with a large percent of slums -- covering the earth, is a part of a sort of fantasy, dystopian world I created in a story, which T's read. I'm writing another one in that setting.

You think there's no hope left, pretty much, right? I think that if enough people brake away from societies conditioning and open their eyes to a different world beyond that, then perhaps a glimmer of hope will remain. People are so obsessed with money and public persona. I envision a new sort of Romantic revolution being a possible solution. The world's so fucked up and complicated though, that I can't say whether I'm being realistic at all there. If indeed, 2011 ends an era, bringing about a new age of hightened consciousness, then that would be a spark which could get the whole thing goin'. But, I'll admit to being somewhat torn about that idea. I think it's silly to put blind faith in it. It sometimes seems not very likely.

But it's true, our world could essentially become a post apocalyptic sort of nightmare.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:08 pm:   

Welcome to the future, man. Anyway, that's what underlies my comments.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:10 pm:   

Remember though, that book you've read was written by one guy. Don't put all your eggs in one basket, kind of thing...
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:16 pm:   

Speaking of post apocalyptic. You still plannin' on publishing that novel about deluded survivalists?
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:39 pm:   

First, yes I am. Second, the book is based on a UN study, as stated in the article, that took years to complete. And that one guy, Davis, is a brilliant guy, author of City Of Quartz...
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:55 pm:   

We're talking, like, a hundred years out, right? Not twenty or something...
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 02:56 pm:   

Okay.

I guess, depending on the day and my mood, I honestly think that nature is ultimately a much more resilient and powerful force than civilization. The recent tsunamis display this. Most likely, the Earth has been around for 4 billion years. Humanity is just a tiny blip on that time span. You realize how many ice ages and warm periods Earth has gone through?

We may very well be doomed as a civilization, but that doesn't mean the entire living Earth is. Some animals have adapted and will continue to adapt to urban life, just as humans can adapt to very adverse conditions.

I would say the same thing about the individual man not entraped by society. The individual man is nature...
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PM
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 03:51 pm:   

Insert your favorite post apocalyptic nightmare here...I'm still waiting for the nuclear nightmare.

Goodness knows there have been enough scifi writers churning this pot that they've become convinced by the taste of their own stew. I think back to the 70s and it's a wonder we even survived ten years:-)

Here are the roots of poverty. People who can't provide for themselves and others standing by and doing nothing. And those in poverty continue to have children.

Those who raise the "issue of poverty" tend to discuss it in economic terms. Well let's take Africa as an example. Corrupt dictatorships and/or corrupt governments. As long as the governments continue to function in that manner then the issue continues.

In theory one could have a dictatorship or a monarchy if the people were fed and educated and industry were able to flourish. Doesn't work out that way...

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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:10 pm:   

You read the article, Currently there's one megacity (20,000,000 plus) in the world; by 2025 there'll be 11 in Asia alone. LA is already transforming into such a city. Don't think it'll take a hundred years. 20 years will see a drastic reduction in quality of life. 40 and we'll be there.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:19 pm:   

LA could very well end up on the bottom of the ocean... It's actually not a could, it will, it's only a matter of time.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:51 pm:   

I used up my apocalyptic worrying during Y2K. Remember that one? Anybody?

Thankfully, I'll probably be toast in 40 years. (If you believe Soylent Green, perhaps, literally.)

Hey, if mine turns into a megacity, at least there's a small chance someone might open a decent restaurant.

While we're on the subject, I know it was supposed to suck and all, but I was watching bits of THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW on HBO the other night, and I have to say, it was scaring me a bit. The idea of a monster movie with weather and climate -- something man is powerless to control -- as the monster was pretty ingenious. It really made me shiver a little, particularly the part where Dennis Quaid basically gives the northern half of the US up for dead.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:56 pm:   

There's also been specualtion that the whole eastern American seaboard will be devestated by a tsunami, one which will dwarf the last one in South East Asia...

Though, I don't think that's as sure a thing as the San Andreas fault going off.

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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 04:57 pm:   

BTW, does the article take into account future epidemics and pandemics? I've got to believe that we are due for another big one, like the influenza outbreak that killed 4 million. If the global population gets too big and too concentrated, mother nature will concoct some virus to bring it down to a sustainable level.

See? There's always a bright side!
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:05 pm:   

Look on the bright side. Millions of people will die.:-)

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PM
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:09 pm:   

We'll have to adjust to growth just as we have to adjust to diminuation.

I tend to agree with others that large aggregations of folk tend to suffer when natural events or plagues happen...

In general, the homeless tend toward the cities rather than living out in the woods and remaining in the woods...
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:20 pm:   

I think the scenario allows for pandemics and natural disasters. The thing is, this isn;t an apocalypse, this is the world turning into Lagos. Some fun. The entire book will be out next year. Most of the poor will not be concentrated in the cities, but in inter-city urban areas (ICUs I call them in my story); the relative fortunate wil live in the city's; in the ICUs, it''ll be relative anarchy.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:39 pm:   

ICU as in "Intensive Care Unit"?

By then, I'll be the strange, wizened old hermit with the footlong beard who earns his keep by telling stories of the Old Times ("Yep, we could go to movies and stay right in our auto-mo-biles. Ain't thet a caution?").
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PM
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 05:41 pm:   

No offense intended when I mention that Land of the Dead had a similar population breakdown...

Look forward to reading your work.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 06:18 pm:   

ICU (int ensive care unit s) = yup.

Land of the Dead?

My storys set in enormous Alaskan strip mine.
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PM
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 06:39 pm:   

Do you discuss the salmon population? :-)
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 06:49 pm:   

That's the novel?
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:27 pm:   

Naw, it's just a novella. Called "The Emperor."
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:31 pm:   

Oh, cool.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 17, 2005 - 07:46 pm:   

New thead below

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