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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:25 am:   

   By StephenB on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 08:25 am:

Do you guys think that Courtney may have murdered Kurt?
   By Lucius on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 08:39 am:

I'd say it's about 60-40 against.
   By MarcL on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:35 am:

In Seattle, there is (or was...I haven't checked recently) a long-running cable access show hosted by a freakish character named Richard Lee called THE COURTNEY LOVE MURDERED KURT COBAIN SHOW. Lee videotaped himself ranting on and on about various conspiracy theories, eventually shifting over from the Love Murder Theory to all kinds of shadowy local doings. He was sort of an active investigative reporter, too, since he would go stake out sites and try to interview people (including former Nirvana band members) on camera.

Still...those who seriously think CL murdered him...have you looked at how many of the men in his family shot themselves? It seems to me like he grew up wholly accepting the (to him inevitable) fact that he was going to kill himself.

Regardless, KURT & COURTNEY is a must-see documentary. And HEAVIER THAN HEAVEN was a really entertaining biography. I happened to drive through Aberdeen not long after reading that bio, and suddenly it all made sense. The land itself looked as if it wanted to commit suicide.
   By Dave G. on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:43 am:

I read Christopher Sandford's bio. It left the impression that this was a very frail, damaged guy.
   By Lucius on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 10:52 am:

Yet Courtney is a major slag, I know people who knew her in LA pre-cobain after she blew through her trust fund, and they said sje had the moral fiber of a hound sniffing a pork chop. I think it's perfectly feasible she talked him into it. Perfectly in character.
   By Dave G. on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:29 am:

She's supposed to be putting on major poundage these days.
   By Lucius on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:36 am:

Frances Bean'll be a candidate for the Woo-woo room, I bet...

People in LA said she ripped off everybody for dope and cash...I always thought there was something weird about the suicide. I caught that seattle guy's cable acess show...he was a maniac, but Chris Novocelic had his suspicians as well.
   By Dave G. on Thursday, July 14, 2005 - 11:58 am:

If you're going to blow your brains out, why would you send your buddy to buy a shotgun? Imagine how cumbersome that is...Why wouldn't you buy yourself a nice .38? I always thought that was bizarre. Better still, if I was a junkie, I would just cook up a killer shot. Wouldn't that be much easier?
   By ben peek on Sunday, July 17, 2005 - 10:21 pm:

i can't believe i missed this thread and a chance to throw my useless online words into a statement saying how much i found INXS unlistenable. best thing hutchinson did was die in an amusing way. if only cobain had been as classy ;)
   By Lucius on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 04:24 am:

Well, hutchence didn't have Courtney to diminish his classiness, now did he?

Whatever happened to the Able Tasmans, Chris Knox, et al?
   By ben peek on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 06:44 am:

no idea. i barely remember able tasmans--i think they might have been from new zealand? might still be hanging there.

you know, while this might diminish me for future music conversation standing, i always kinda liked love's voice.
   By Lucius on Monday, July 18, 2005 - 07:06 am:

Yeah, sounds like a dog howling for a pork chop.

I love NZ rock, the whole Flying Nun thing--Tall Dwarfs, early Staitjacket Fits, The Mint Chicks, etc etc etc....
   By Dave G. on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 07:51 am:

Anyone watch RSINXS, last night? Personally, I think Neal should be booted for botching "Summer of '69," probably the easiest song available, and J.D. should be thrown out for his flagrant effort to kiss up to the band.
   By Lucius on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:23 am:

Still like the redhead. Deanna really sucked last night.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:35 am:   

Sorry, didn't see the new thread.

Yeah, you, me and Dave Navarro. He sounded like he wanted to seduce our Heather. I hit the hay before Deanna, but she really lost me Monday night when her and Tara were fighting over freaking Black Sabbath and whining about having to sing "The One I Love" (one of my favorite REM tunes). These guys seem terrified of singing a simple melody that doesn't give them a chance to showboat or grind like a Chippendale. "The One I Love" is a degree of difficulty 1.0. If you can't hit it out of the park, you should pack it in.

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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 08:48 am:   

Navarro, each time I see him, looks more...wilted, I guess is the word.
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T Andrews
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:18 am:   

I didn't see the new thread either. Oh well. I'm a good thread killer, so I won't repeat myself. :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:34 am:   

Mig was awful. Actually, I didn't like Jordis, either.

Every show, does Navarro look a little more limp and wilted to you?
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 10:48 am:   

I went to bed before Jordis. As much as Mig's flashy theatricality makes me sick, you almost have to give him some props for taking on "Walk This Way," which is very hard to pull off. Compare it with somebody gumping "Summer of '69," which any drunken karaoke slapper can sing. I think it took almost getting canned twice to wake Suzie up; she seems to be performing better now.
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T Andrews
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 11:05 am:   

Navarro looks terrible, Lucius, and if I was his wife, I'd been getting pretty damn sick of his constant, sexually-charged comments to the women. Maybe he feels he needs to macho things up a bit to balance his wardrobe choices; I don't know.

Dave, I kinda think Summer of '69 would be harder because it's so fucking boring!!
As for "Walk This Way", watching Mig struggle through it was a very uncomfortable experience. He just hasn't got an ounce of 'rocker' in him.

Suzie may be improving, but she is thoroughly unexceptional.

I thought the house band sucked last night.

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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 11:21 am:   

Yeah, but on RSINXS, "unexceptional" just might be a winning formula!

Dream scenario: Heather Luttrel wins, and as she's performing her victory song she is Pearl Harbored by Carmen Electra. Catfight ensues. Now that's what I would call "must see TV."
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:00 pm:   

Dream Scenario? Navarro is attacked and devoured by rats, the theater is sucked underground by a sinkhole and the survivors, including one member of the band, become the forbearers of a race of troglodytes who one day will emerge from the sewers of LA and achieve primacy over the human race, to whom they teach their debased songs, which remind of the early Stooges. None of them in any way resemble Mig,
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 12:00 pm:   

Dream Scenario? Navarro is attacked and devoured by rats, the theater is sucked underground by a sinkhole and the survivors, including one member of the band, become the forbearers of a race of troglodytes who one day will emerge from the sewers of LA and achieve primacy over the human race, to whom they teach their debased songs, which remind of the early Stooges. None of them in any way resemble Mig.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 01:15 pm:   

Memo to self: don't try to go toe-to-toe in fantasy fiction with Lucius Shepard...BTW, what you're describing sounds suspiciously like the rise of hair metal in the mid-1980s.
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 01:41 pm:   

Lucius - You MUST write that story.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 01:48 pm:   

I think if I did write the story, I'd probably stop after the Navarro-consuming -- that would satisfy me.

Dave, yeah....doesn't it?
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 02:24 pm:   

You can have the rocktrogs being led to conquest by philosopher-king Chuck Klosterman.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 03:05 pm:   

I can have anything I want--eets my story...:-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 06:11 am:   

I see Neal got the boot last night. Thank goodness.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 06:18 am:   

Yay.....

And a rat bit off Navarro's right earring.. :-)
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Bruce
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 10:57 am:   

This theme of this post falls under neither rock nor music but this thread is the closest I’m gonna get. The short version: the other night I was volunteered to escort several nieces and nephews to a Black Eyed Peas concert.

I am still in recovery mode. It was one the damnedest things I’ve seen in years. A veritable cornucopia of bizarre costume changes, spavined dancing, lame light effects, butchered acoustics, scripted exhortations of the crowd, a [gaaah!] dj solo. The kids loved it, needless to say, all ten thousand of ‘em. I have to admit, it was intriguing to see what the latest generation finds entertaining but I’m definitely getting too old for this shit. Any musical prescriptions to help scrub my brain?
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:10 am:   

If rock and roll can be remedy, I' m listening to the stooges first album right now. 1969 okay/all across the USA....clears the palette, Another album that's getting a lot of play is Carla Bozulich's The Red-headed Stranger, which is her version of the classic Willie Nelson album, aided by avant guitarist turned rocker Nels Cline. Just a thought.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:03 pm:   

I'm no fan of hip-hop pop, but I saw the Black Eyed Peas in a club right after "Where Is the Love?" hit and I thought they were surprisingly good. They must have severely tarted up their show for arenas.

Bruce, in what directions do your tastes run?

Yeah, anything by Nels Cline, highly recommended.
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Bruce
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:49 pm:   

Thanks, Lucius, Dave. Pre-89 Stooges will be tough to source in Calgary, but Carla Bozulich's easy enough to acquire.

Dave, I’m reasonably omnivorous as regards music but it can take me years to acquire a taste for anything modern. CDs in my collection that have had recent air time include Bach, Arethra, early Who [Live at Leeds], Ella, Rimsky-Korsakov, Johnny Cash, Frank Zappa, Roy Buchanan. Certain brands of music leave me utterly flat: commercial C&W, disco, nearly all rap and most hip-hop. To be fair, I don’t doubt the BEPs worked out better in a more intimate environment. They were high energy and clearly did connect with the crowd but tarted up is a great way to put it. The hammy stuff doesn’t translate as well to a slightly jaded 45 year old as it does to a Generation Z 16 year old whose role model is either Fergie or – gawd help us - apl.de.ap.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:46 pm:   

Let me put on my thinking cap...
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 01:22 am:   

I'm really impressed by the new John Prine album, "Fair and Square". I don't know if it will appeal to all you shitkickers here, but I think it's excellent.

John's voice has been zapped by cancer (and it's treatment), but he still has more vocal prowess than today's Dylan. And the words ..

from "Some Humans Ain't Human"..

have you ever noticed
when you're feelin’ really good
there's always a pigeon
come shit on your head
or you're feelin' your freedom
and the world's off your back
some cowboy from Texas
start's his own war in Iraq
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 02:30 pm:   

John Prine? Isn't he more of a folkie, than country?
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 03:42 pm:   

He certainly stated off as a “new Dylan”, but he's been veering towards country music for years. His last CD was a collection of country duets. Covers of George Jones, etc., with Trisha Yearwood, Melba Montgomery, Emmylou Harris, etc.

I like “We’re Not the Jet Set” (originally George and Tammy)..

“No we're not the jet set, we're the old Chevrolet set
Our steak and martinis is draft beer with weiners
Our Bach and Tschaikowsky is Haggard and Husky
No we're not the jet set, we're the old Chevrolet set
But ain't we got love”

Prine sings that one with Iris Dement - pretty great.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 04:19 pm:   

I know Iris Dement, but haven't listened to Prine. Guess I'll check him out.
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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 09:38 am:   

Try "The Missing Years" and "Fair and Square." The former has a song called "Jesus: the Missing Years" that you might like.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 09:53 am:   

Jesus: The Missing Years. I like it already.
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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 10:33 am:   

When I saw him sing it, he started out saying how the Bible didn't say a thing about what happened to Jesus between ages 12 and 17 and he couldn't believe nobody knew, because, hell, if he (JP) went fishing for the weekend with the waitress from the cafe, by Monday morning everybody in Nashville knew about it and he was nowhere near as famous as Jesus...so he wrote a song about those missing years....here's the middle verse:

Wine was flowing so were beers
So Jesus found his missing years
So He went to a dance and said "This don't move me"
He hiked up his pants and he went to a movie
On his thirteenth birthday he saw "Rebel without a Cause"
He went straight on home and invented Santa Claus
Who gave him a gift and he responded in kind
He gave the gift of love and went out of his mind
You see him and the wife wasn't getting along
So he took out his guitar and he wrote a song
Called "The Dove of Love Fell Off the Perch"
But he couldn't get divorced in the Catholic Church
At least not back then anyhow
Jesus was a good guy he didn't need this shit
So he took a pill with a bag of peanuts and
A Coca-Cola and he swallowed it.
He discovered the Beatles
And he recorded with the Stones
Once He even opened up a three-way package
In Southern California for old George Jones
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 10:52 am:   

Sounds real good..

You've memorized this, huh? I think that's one of the signs of a mispent adulthood? :-)

Did you ever hear a country song called, Opal, You Asked Me? It's a novelty song, maybe by Bobby Bare, this guy reading a letter he wrote to his ex....? Funny as hell.
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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:17 am:   

Well, yeah, I reckon it is. :-)

Actually, I think Opal, You Asked Me was Tommy Collins, and here's today's trivia for you. Tommy Collins' real name was Leonard Sipes and he's the subject of the Merle Haggard song "Leonard."

And with my brain full of stuff like this it's no wonder I can't remember where my car keys are most of the time...
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 11:53 am:   

That's right. Tommy Collins. I can't tell you how impressed I am that you know that song! And the other stuff, too. :-)

You don't know the lyrics, do you?

Fuck the car keys. It's this and football stats that are important.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 10:41 am:   

My mistake. Sorry about missing the new thread.

My top 3 for RSINXS are:

1. Marty (Relatively tuneful, good moves, will preserve boy-boy camaraderie of band on tour, good all-around choice)

2 Suzie (After a shaky start, has really taken off...Knocked "Never Tear Us Apart" out of the ballpark, and did an equally killer job last night (7/26))

3. Ty (Good pipes, but the band dislikes his theatricality, and the mo-fro hairdo might not fit in with their look...)

Dark horse: Heather could rebound from a bad showing next week and reclaim her place near the head of the pack...generally good voice, redheaded sexiness and youth might be a tonic for a band looking to connect with younger fans)

Bottom three:

1. J.D.: Fact that he does "own arrangements" can't save WTF-weird performances. Chose "We Are the Champions" and drove it into the muck with mumbly, off-key singing, wacky stage moves and some tearful staged reunion with his sister that was needless and bizarre. Has something for nobody.

2. Daphna: Fashion train wreck with unconvincing voice and no stage persona. Ballgown version of "Rock the Casbah" called a "murder" by band. A sure goner.

3. Deanna: Big voice, but nature mama persona would be more appropriate dishing out meusli than dishing out tuneage. Zero stage presence. Gumped very singable REM tune. When had first choice, selected god awful Supertramp song and sang it poorly. No instincts or song selection.

Bubbling Under: Mig: Oddball with bad vox, cheesy, Vegas stage moves and no rock sensibility, but makes girls scream, so could get over on "charisma." Might appeal to old band looking to replace boy-toy singer.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 10:54 am:   

Pretty accurate. I'd say it's down to Marty and Heather, cause if they choose a girl, they'll go for the connect with younger fans thing
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Minz
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 11:51 am:   

All your chatter had me checking this out. All I can go by is last night's performances:

Marty was undoubtedly the class of the show. Hit Lithium out of the park.

Ty was strong. Very strong.

Suzie was good, but not all that. I thought Jordis was a little better (well, except for that missed line).

Mig is clearly a Broadway performer doing his darndest to appear to be a rocker. Solid Broadway performance. 'Nuf said.

Heather was beyond painful to watch. Well beyond. I'd have rather listened to fingers scratching a chalkboard while forced to chew styrofoam then to see that again. Real train wreck.

And piling up cars behind were the rest of them, in particular JD & Brandon. (Tara earns a pass for all the cleavage... :-))
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:07 pm:   

Heather's been great til now--she has a cool voice.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 12:22 pm:   

I think I'm the only Suzie booster. Watch out for that little gal. She can bring it.
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Minz
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 01:27 pm:   

She seemed like she was on the verge of being there--I'd like to see her do a set, rather than 90 seconds.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 01:57 pm:   

A set of what. Bent rows. :-)
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:19 am:   

Hey Lucius. Just wanted to tell you that I've been listening to a lot of indie and punk stuff lately (not that I didn't a little bit before), including some of the bands mentioned by you and others here, which I hadn't heard of.

I now understand what you were saying more, then before, when we were arguing about music. I probably said some silly things. I'll take this as a lesson in humility, or whatever. You've been listening to music for way longer than me and you know a shit load about it.

I still like Tool, somewhat, but not as much as I once did. As a new generation King Crimson sort of band, they aren't even as good....
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 06:22 am:   

Guys, I am still trembling and in shock from last night's RSINXS apocalypse, in which the band voted off Heather AND Daphna!

Who could have expected that? Kind of harsh for Heather to get booted after one bad week, when numbnuts like JD Fortune are still hanging on.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 06:22 am:   

Hey, Stephen...everyone's got their obsessions. Some of the bands I've liked...Yecch!
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 06:28 am:   

I have watched my last INXS. They bounced Heather, and I will not watch a heatherless show. Daphna seemed bitter. I get the feeling there was something going on, like maybe one of those old poofters hit on her... and Heather?

"You're not right for our band, INXS..."

They need Mig,,,,
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 07:34 am:   

Yeah, Daphna gave em a little attitude, with that "my mother raised me right" business. Too bad she didn't teach her to sing.

Heather got a raw deal. There should be some kind of exemption for legitimate illness. I mean, like bands don't ever cancel shows?

Maybe Navarro hit on Heather. Or wanted her off the show so that he could. A nice rumor to start, anyway? (Maybe Brooke hit on one of them...hmmmmm...)

I don't trust that old Aussie with the odd moustache and beard. What's up with that look anyway?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 07:37 am:   

poofter....

Yeah, the girl was sick, man! Something's fishy.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 08:51 am:   

Del Toro
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Minz
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:31 am:   

At least Daphna got what she deserved. I thought Heather was tolerable last night. She clearly wasn't 100percent, but Daphna just sucked.

JD will linger on waaaay to long, because they want a villain to last. He clearly won't win, but expect him to a petulant pissant that makes it at least to the final three.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 10:40 am:   

JD and MIG are abortions.. I still think there was something fishy....

Wonder if INXS is gonna do this every year.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 11:51 am:   

Why, there's a virtually unlimited number of leaderless minor-celebrity, where-are-they-now rock bands who could fit the bill...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:06 pm:   

Yeah, but I was hoping INXS would do it every year...
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:30 pm:   

So it can be like the Miss America pagaent...
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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   

I didn't catch it last night. dammit!
I always miss the good ones.

r.i.p Heather...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:35 pm:   

Yeah, sorta....

It'd be amusing.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 12:37 pm:   

It was weird, T, I'm convinced there was something hinkey going on...
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2005 - 09:50 pm:   

hasn't INXS been doing this every year, anyway? they've tried to kick off with a new lead a couple of times now, i'm sure. i might be mistaken but i remember them with phil cebrano at one stage.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, July 29, 2005 - 07:27 am:   

How about next season:

Rock Star: Van Halen?

They've been doing the revolving-door thing for a long time, and that Xtreme guy they hired was a big bust-out.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, August 01, 2005 - 09:52 pm:   

THE MODERN SOUNDS OF THE KNITTERS is great stuff. Some Knitterfied covers of old X songs ("In This House That I Call Home" was already a classic but somehow they amped it up; "Burning House of Love" is better now), and then a whole lot of new stuff. John Doe and Exene are in top harmonic form. The rest of the band is none too shabby.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:22 pm:   

Not a bad show last night, several ok perfs. Not Migs. Be interesting to see who ge ts kicked off toniight. The black guy, maybe.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:40 pm:   

It seems I can watch less and less of that show as weeks go on. I only made it through Deanna's forced-sexy Melissa Etheridge. I figured after Marty's Creed cover, it was all academic, anyway. It's his competition to lose.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 02:45 pm:   

Yep. I had laser surgery on an eye yesterday and was reduced to blurrily watching. Yeah, I like Deanna less and less. She bellows too much.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:47 pm:   

Hope the surgery went well.

Deanna was kind of embarrassing. I think she feels the contest is slipping away from her and her audience antics and that hair whipping for the boys just smacked of desperation. Don't be surprised to see her in the Bottom Three tonite.
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T Andrews
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:50 pm:   

Mig was rotten. I couldn't believe they liked his performance.
JD was okay, but he's so...needy. Unpredictable. I can't see them putting any trust in him.
Deanna really impressed me in the beginning, but now...what's with this compulsive close-to-the-croch-grabbing that her and Jessica do? Jeez, I hate that. It's a watered-down hip-hop pose that grates on my nerves.

Lurch/Brandon may not be a great singer, but I think he's interesting.

Lucius: two thumbs up for Abimagique. Unsettling and beautiful. :-)
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 04:54 pm:   

I watched it last night for the first time. Deanna was the only one who's performance mildly interested me. I couldn't see myself listening to any of the other singers, unless the music was much better than what INXS plays.

I listened to a few mp3s of the earlier shows, and promptly lost any interest in Deanna. Heather's the only one I'd actually want to listen to, and she's already gone.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:09 pm:   

Hey, T...thanks for the kind words.

I stick by my guns. I thought Heather bellowed.

Robert, right on! Heather was my favorite. Great tats, too.


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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:14 pm:   

It would almost comically worth it to see the INXS boys hauling Mig around to a bunch of sparsely-attended gigs at "intimate" venues around the midwest. "Hello, Duluth!"
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2005 - 05:34 pm:   

Oh yeah, Abimagique's up.

I might watch it tonight. I detest the whole idol franchise, but I've watched on ocassion, just to make fun of it.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 03:27 am:   

From the brief clips I've seen of that show, none of them seem like true rockers. Too slick and squeaky clean -- more like manufactured pop stars, which is kind of what they're trying to be. Rockers are supposed to be raw and careless. Well, I guess rock has the whole glam side. Look at Navarro, he's all glamed up, but in a goth sort of way. He was never that good, but he's certainly gone down hill since Jane's early days. Jane's Addiction just plain sucks now...
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 05:32 am:   

i saw a bit of it last night. thought mig was awful, but the dude with the creed cover was alright. caught the end of JD, and all i could think was that he didn't sound like he'd fit with the inxs band.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 05:41 am:   

It is awful. That's why it's sorta fun. "You're not right for our band, INXS." Who would be right? A fifty year old poof?
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 06:20 am:   

I guess Tara bit the big one last night. Didn't watch, and have no opinion on her one way or the other. Can't believe J.D. is still hanging in.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 06:41 am:   

Yep. Tara she gone. I think JD's gone soon.
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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 07:14 am:   

Ty was good last night.

Hey Stephen: what did you think of the Tool reference in Abimagique? hehehe...;)
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 07:24 am:   

Strictly inadvertant, T.....I swear by my tattoo.

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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:01 am:   

Lucius, if you ever wind up in the Toronto area, let me know and you can get all the free tattoos you want. :-) Unless you want a full Japanese body suit. But we could negotiate.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:10 am:   

I might take you up, T, No body suit. Just a an exxed out name and a chewed-up heart. :-)
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:17 am:   

Lucius: Just read Abimagique and I'm loving it so far! Great use of second person. Abi, reminds me a bit of a girl I knew.

T: I don't mind the reference because I have friends like that, who annoy me, who do acid and think the members of Tool are prophets or some bullshit, and read into the songs as if they offer profound Truth. I've always liked the band mostly because of the drums. And I think Maynard's voice has range, and for a rockstar, he's somewhat bright. But that's part of the secret of their success. They market mystery. I've always seen that, some people don't. Still, the drums are something to behold.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:30 am:   

Thanks, Stephen. I don't think I'd ever done a second person story before, so I thought I;d tru one. I've done some rewriting of the story for the next ps collection, so I think that'll be the bettter version.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:31 am:   

try one....

Fucking eyes!
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:36 am:   

Cool. I'll definitely get that collection.

Yeah, second person is the least common, and perhaps most difficult viewpoint.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:39 am:   

There's a way to cross second and first person that's cool. I used it a little in Hands UP Who Wants to Die....
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:47 am:   

Haven't got there yet. Don't want to read straight through it, rather savour it.

Pretty much read all of Ends of the Earth, except the dragon story. Wonderful collection. Favourites include the title story, Noman's Land, Buddha, and On The Border.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 09:00 am:   

Thanks, Stephen, Well you'll see what I mean wehn you get to Hands Up...
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 09:03 am:   

Surrender has a pretty cool gonzo journalist style.

One thing that I think is pretty neat, which Danny did on the drums, is implement the fibonacci sequence into a song. He may be the first drummer to try that. You might say though, that it's a contrived novelty...
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:21 am:   

And it is, kinda.

So, do you think that Doc At The Radar Station's one of Beefheart's best albums?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:25 am:   

IT's one of his last albums and it's pretty good. Ice Cream for Crow is good. Trout Mask Replica is more extreme in its avante-gardeness, but I like parts of it incredibly much.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:39 am:   

Yep, I listen to Trout too. Doc just seems more consistent. I'm not sure if I've heard Ice Cream for Crow.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:48 am:   

Lick My Decals Off, Baby is another.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:52 am:   

And Oh yeah, two faves -- Bat Chain Puller and the Spotlight Kid
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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 10:55 am:   

I think my favorite Capn Beefheart song is "Telephone." Anyway it's the one that pops up randomly in my head after years of not having listened to any of his albums. It's brain-sized. Many of the others are just too snaggly and sprawling to fit inside my head.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:03 am:   

On that album, I prefer "Ashtray Heart", "Run Paint Run Run", "Sheriff of Hong Kong", and "Dirty Blue Gene".
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:04 am:   

Shit, I remember the entireity of Orange Claw Hammer and .....

There's old Gray with her dove-wing hat
there's old Green with her sewing machine
Where's the bobbin' at?
The dust blows forward, and the dust blows back....

:-)
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:26 am:   

He can become tedium, especially Trout. But I like to listen to him sometimes.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:36 am:   

I like TMR, man. One of my favorites..
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:40 am:   

"We don't have to suffer/We're the best batch yet..." My personal motto.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:41 am:   

I'm not saying I don't like it. But I have to be in the mood, you know? Otherwise it can be wearisome. That's all.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 11:56 am:   

Women like long neck bottles and a big head on the beer.....

That be mine.
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Rich Patterson
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:22 pm:   

Beefheart. Wonderful stuff. I still recall most of the dialogue/patter between the songs - like "Apes Ma" or the Rocket Morton stuff from TMR. Fave title... "I wanna find me a women that'll hold my big toe"

I think I liked Shiny Beast best - "Tropical Hotdog Night"!
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   

Yours?
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Rich
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:47 pm:   

Smithsonian Institute Blues (The Big Dig)
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 12:57 pm:   

One of my bands did a cover of Crazy Little Thing...

but my absolute favorite is Abba Zabba, the first song I saw him play...

Some people, some people sing blues
like a crazy baboon....
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:17 pm:   

I met a guy, not that long ago, who plays in a Zappa cover band. All they cover is Zappa. He made a big deal about it, asking me if I know a bassist who can play all of Zappa's songs. I said I didn't, that I know of. He said, now you do.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:19 pm:   

He then got up, shook my hand, told me I'm a nice guy, told this other guy that he's a phoney, and left...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:23 pm:   

Sounds like he called himself, Trinity


there was a pretty good movie about a guy who played French horn in a BTO cover band. :-)
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:29 pm:   

:-)
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Rich
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:32 pm:   

Yeah, Safe as Milk. Abba Zabba zoo. Crazy Little Thing is a great choice. Did you sing that? I always thought Too Much Time to Be Without Love would be a cool cover for a bar band.

Pretty sure Johnny Rotten sites the Captain as an influence on the Pistols. The lyrics to "Submission" quote Beefheart ( "...everybody knows Japan is a dishpan")
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 01:51 pm:   

Crazy Little Thing was a great cover. Yup. I sang it.

I saw beefheat sing Abba Zabba om an afteroon talk show -- The Woody Woodbury Show . After they played, they sat on the couch and were interviewed by Woodbury. Zoot Horn Rollo, Antennae Jimmy Siemens....the whole bunch. It was fucking surreal.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 07:36 pm:   

Anybody like Chris Whitley? Just listened to his last couple of albums--Soft Dangerous Shores and War Crimes Blues. His acoustic guitar work is incrredible and his songwriting keeps getting better...
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Rich
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 08:41 pm:   

Nice stuff. I've heard bits of Soft Dangerous Shores. Percussion heavy arrangements. I’m not sure who produced him, but it sounds like Lanois.
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2005 - 09:09 pm:   

Malcolm Burn.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:20 am:   

Yes, I think so, Lucius. Although, I'm not sure. I listened to what might be him at a friends house, but I can't remember the name of the guy, but it was something like that. It had beautiful guitar work and I think he's entirely instrumental. Same guy?
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 05:24 am:   

I realize this is a rock thread, but nobody ever talks about Jazz much. Jazz is great. I'm listening the Bitchs Brew right now, which I love. There;s just so much going on, that it never gets boring. I know, it's a really well known album, but I haven't gotten that far into Jazz yet.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:31 am:   

Naw, whitley sings as well.

I didn't much care for that period of Miles. I prefer his work with The Quinted and his later 70's stuff, as exemplified by Dark Magus. Bitch's Brew is flashy, but overrated, in my view. But I understand its appeal to someone coming from rock. For me, the transition was accomplished with an album called Spanish Lady by John Handy, with a band that had a rock-ish guitarist named Jerry Hahn and a violinist named Michael White. The song Spanish Lady is great intro into jazz. Thereafter I fell in love with the lush sounds of Pharoah Sanders on albums like Tahuid. After that, bang zoom I started listening to everythng...
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:45 am:   

Okay, different guy.

That may be the case with Brew, as it's the Miles I've mostly listened too. I'll check out more of his other stuff. It is a fusion album, in some waya.

I'm impressed by flashy fusion type stuff because of the complexity and musicianship involved, but I realize in terms of song writing, it doesn't stand out. I like the freestyle improvised Jazz. But I also like the more songy type Jazz too.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:53 am:   

Fusion is, basically, what Dark Magus and his seventies stuff is, but it's a lot denser and darker. I have an essay I wrote about it for the Nation that's on a thread called Miles Davis.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 06:55 am:   

I'd probably like Magus then. I'll check the thread.
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Ste
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:01 am:   

Been listening to Pavement lately and it's growing on me. They use borrowed riffs and melodies, but it's personal and fresh.
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:07 am:   

Lucius's Miles thread
http://www.nightshadebooks.com/discus/messages/32/618.html

Bitches Brew is good, but a lot of fusion is dull. I've heard too much that just makes me think of the bland Kenny G "jazz" style, or stuff that sounds like a less interesting Yes (and Yes isn't that interesting). Mahavishnu Orchestra has some good stuff, and I like Anthony Curtis. They both capture some of the wild flashiness of BB.
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:13 am:   

Borrowed riffs can be good, but it takes talent. I've been listening to a lot of an artist named "When". It's mostly sonic collage with some singing on top, he manages to reassemble old records, recordings of children's books and sound effects into something that's part Beach Boys and part Dead Can Dance. I like that he can take old parts and make something new out of them.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:19 am:   

Wicked essay, Lucius. I learned a lot about the man, I didn't know. I think I may like Magus better than Brew.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:23 am:   

Wow. Dead Can Dance meets the Beach Boys. Sounds intriguing, anyway...

I wonder what would happen if DCD actually did combine with the Beach Boys....

A lot of fusion is dull, but then a lot of everything is dull. Jack Johnson''s a good record. Stanley Clarke and Wayne Shorter and etc had some interesting records. Weather Report. But it;s really about the musicians not the form.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:25 am:   

In September Columbia is releasing the complete Cellar Door recordings that make up a large part of Live-Evil. Could be a monster:

Disc 1
Directions (J. Zawinul) Dec 16, 1970 8:55
Yesternow (M. Davis) Dec 16, 1970 17:05
What I Say - Sanctuary Dec 16, 1970 13:10
Improvisation #1 Dec 16, 1970 4:29
Inamorata (M. Davis) [Funky Tonk] Dec 16, 1970 14:00


Disc 2
What I Say (M. Davis) Dec 17, 1970 13:33
Honky Tonk - Sanctuary Dec 17, 1970 20:00
It's About That Time (M. Davis) Dec 17, 1970 14:41
Inamorata (M. Davis) [Funky Tonk] Dec 17, 1970 14:33
Sanctuary (W. Shorter-M. Davis) Dec 17, 1970 0:30


Disc 3
Directions (J. Zawinul) Dec 18, 1970 13:11
Honky Tonk (M. Davis) Dec 18, 1970 18:32
What I Say - Sanctuary Dec 18, 1970 15:09


Disc 4
Directions (J. Zawinul) Dec 18, 1970 11:53
Honky Tonk (M. Davis) Dec 18, 1970 17:01
What I Say (M. Davis) Dec 18, 1970 14:12
Sanctuary (W. Shorter-M. Davis) Dec 18, 1970 2:03
Improvisation #3 Dec 18, 1970 5:05
Inamorata - Sanctuary [Funky Tonk] Dec 18, 1970 15:14


Disc 5
Directions (J. Zawinul) Dec 19, 1970 15:09
Honky Tonk (M. Davis) Dec 19, 1970 20:49
What I Say - Sanctuary Dec 19, 1970 21:31


Disc 6
Directions (J. Zawinul) Dec 19, 1970 19:05
Improvisation #4 Dec 19, 1970 5:04
Inamorata (M. Davis) [Funky Tonk] Dec 19, 1970 18:28
Sanctuary (W. Shorter-M. Davis) Dec 19, 1970 2:13
It's About That Time - Sanctuary Dec 19, 1970 7:49

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



December 16, 1970
Miles Davis (tpt); Gary Bartz (ss, as); Keith Jarrett (el-p, org); Michael Henderson (el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d); Airto Moreira (perc, voc)


December 17, 1970
Miles Davis (tpt); Gary Bartz (ss, as); Keith Jarrett (el-p, org); Michael Henderson (el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d); Airto Moreira (perc, voc)


December 18, 1970
Miles Davis (tpt); Gary Bartz (ss, as); Keith Jarrett (el-p, org); Michael Henderson (el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d); Airto Moreira (perc, voc)


December 19, 1970
Miles Davis (tpt); Gary Bartz (ss, as); Keith Jarrett (el-p, org); John McLaughlin (g); Michael Henderson (el-b); Jack DeJohnette (d); Airto Moreira (perc, voc); Conrad Roberts (narr)




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Robert
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:36 am:   

Lucius, given your dislike of pop, I'm sure you'd hate When.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 07:36 am:   

Thanks, R....


Wow. When Is Vincent Gallo.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 08:34 am:   

The Velvet Underground's gotta be one of the best bands of the psychedelic era, along with pink Floyd. Reed's a great song writer. What's the crazy one's name again?

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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 08:36 am:   

Cale?
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 08:40 am:   

I have the Vincent Gallo full-length and CD single, and I really like 'em. He's got an Eno-meets-Chet-Baker kind of thing going on that I find very soothing. I'll have to check out the collage stuff. Say what you want about Gallo, he's always doing something weird, and I find that admirable.
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Robert
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 08:53 am:   

The When I was talking about isn't Gallo. It's a Norwegian guy named Lars Pederson. He's on Jester Records (kind of Norway's version of Ipecac, Mike Patton's odd record label).
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:07 am:   

Huh. Where's it available online, Robert.

Dave, anything I don't have to own by that assbag Galllo puts me ahead of the game. Weird isn't by definition good.

Steven, re VU and the Crazy one--they were all crazy. But yeah, John Cale. Hobosapiens is a pretty interesting album of his.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:10 am:   

So, not a Gallo fan, eh? How do you REALLY feel? :-)

IMHO, Cale is one of the unsung geniuses of pop. I think his Music For a New Society and Sabotage are lost classics.
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:15 am:   

Yeah, but he was probably the craziest one of all.:-)
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Robert
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:19 am:   

There are some brief clips here:
http://www.jester-records.com/releases_sub.php?ID=18
http://www.jester-records.com/releases_sub.php?ID=36

For ordering stuff from Jester:
http://www.theendrecords.com/omega/

I'm not a Gallo fan either. I watched Buffalo 66 because I loved the idea of Christina Ricci tap dancing to King Crimson. Best part of the movie.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:50 am:   

Robert, yeah, those clips remind me of some of Patton's stuff.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:02 pm:   

Have you heard Kaada & Patton's album, Romances? Good experimental rock.
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Robert
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:20 pm:   

I just heard a few clips, and it has the same effect on me as many of Patton's projects - it simultaneously intrigues and annoys me.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:20 pm:   

Here's a link: It's not popy at all.

http://www.kaada.no/romances/

The sound quality isn't that good on the site, but it gives you an idea. Check out in paticular tracks 4,5,8.
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:26 pm:   

The clip for five is actually a shittier part of the song...
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   

9's better.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:30 pm:   

I know what you mean though, Robert. I don't like everything he does. You have to be in the mood...
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Stephen
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:39 pm:   

Listening to Coltrane's Ascension. Great, once it gets going. I'd consider it more traditional Jazz then Brew.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:32 pm:   

"Ascension" traditional jazz?! That's the funniest thing I've read all day! Although, it is part of MY tradional collection. If you dig that, try "Live in Seattle" and "Live in Japan." Oh, and "Live at the Village Vanguard, Again." And the studio recordings "Meditations" and "OM." That's some strong meat you're tasting, Stephen.
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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:55 pm:   

I'm trying to calm down, so I switched the Jazz with, F-Mac's "Rumours" and C-Steven's "Teaser and the Firecat". Uh, oh.:-)

About "Ascension", it just seems more conventional Jazz then Brew. Brew broke ground, I think. I have been listening to Jazz since I was a wee lad, as my Grandpa played the Trumpet and loved Jazz. He was funny. I loved him a lot. My favourite grandparent. I just haven't gotten that into it, yet.
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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:04 pm:   

But I'm not saying it is conventional Jazz.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:35 pm:   

In a Sllent way started the new ground
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Stephen
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:41 am:   

The more I listen to Ascension the more I love it, maybe even more than Brew. It's a little more raw I think, where as Brew's a little more refined, if less conventional.

Jazz music in general, I think, is mostly about the brass and the drums.

Classical musicians, who look down on percussion as a lesser instrument, obviously don't really get Jazz. Or Latin and Funk, for that matter. The drum kit was created for Jazz by the pioneers of Jazz.
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GabrielM
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 08:35 pm:   

Thought I'd mention MILES IN BERLIN is now available in the US. Used to be you could only get it as an import from Japan. It's the very first recording of the "second quintet". The live sound is pretty good despite being mono. As a diehard Coltrane devotee I'm much more a fan of the first Davis quintet than the second, but this stuff's pretty great.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:03 pm:   

Stephen, it's not drums that are looked down upon. it's drummers... :-)

Thanks, Gabe
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:06 pm:   

Stephen, it's not drums that are looked down upon. it's drummers... :-)

Thanks, Gabe
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:16 pm:   

new thread below

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