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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 03:10 pm:   

m:

Victor Salva, director of Powder and Jeepers Creepers 1 and 2, comes to mind. A child molestor whose lascivious treatment of the male torso informs all his films.

I don't really think The Woodsman is dangerous, because it incites people like Laird, Minz, Adam, and T to speak their mind. Dangerous movies. Hollywood product movies. Movies like Shawshank and Forrest Gump and American Beauty. They are celluloid sedatives with laid-in propaganda designed to placate, to assuage. Relax, it's all good, you can take it up the ass and like it. Weapons of Mass Seduction. I'm convinced there has a war against thought waged by the marketing people, and Hollywood is a big part of their arsenal.

Any film labeled dangerous is probably not dangerous, because it generates controversy.
   By Dave G. on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 10:42 am:

And let's not forget Roman Polanski, who copped a plea and split to France in 1978.
   By MarcL on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 10:54 am:

I remember standing in line at the local natural food store behind a woman with two kids. The cashier asked her if she was going to watch the TV version of Stephen King's THE SHINING that was on that night. She launched into a rant about Stephen King, how she despised such horrific people and would never expose her children or her own pure thoughts to such disgusting and dreadful trash. Then she proudly took out the video she had just picked up for her family's evening entertainment and held it up for his edification: POWDER.

I know, I should have said something.
   By Laird Barron on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 11:09 am:

Hey, Marc

I certainly don't advocate censorship of The Woodsman. I object to its seeming manipulation of the subject matter and feel compelled to offer my admittedly humble opinion on the matter.
As for my opinion re: it being "dangerous" I think that was sufficiently covered in my previous comments.

Assuming civilized standards of discourse are in effect, as they have been here, isn't the suggestion that we restrain our reactions to a work of art, or that some expressions of dissent may go too far, implicit of censorship in and of itself?

Seems to me the best course is reasoned discussion sans artificial limiters.

Best regards,

Laird

   By Dave G. on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 11:13 am:

Marc, your point is well taken. No parent wants the mind of his child tarnished by the lewd, morally corrupt, indefensibly evil and inhuman ideas of a degenerate, no doubt out to impose his sick, criminal designs on an impressionable youth. I mean, imagine, letting your kid watch the work of a...a...


...a Red Sox fan!...<cringe> It's almost too awful to think about.

I admit I liked the first half of Jeepers Creepers 1, tho.

   By MarcL on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 11:40 am:

Laird, your opinion on the matter could hardly be humbler than mine! Hope you don't think I was veering toward uncivilized discourse...I tend to avoid those forums. I'm not saying to suppress our reactions, but to broaden the context.

My original reaction to descriptions of THE WOODSMAN was: Sounds like a great performance from Kevin Bacon in a movie I wouldn't really enjoy watching. It never occurred to me that the movie might be somehow dangerous.

CLEAN-SHAVEN was another movie dealing with this topic that I found impossible to watch beyond a certain point. However, the viewpoint was presented in such a way that you clearly knew you were dealing with a warped mind. It was a technique that let the audience clearly separate the protagonist from the filmmaker. Sounds like THE WOODSMAN'S more naturalistic/realistic approach has made that more difficult to determine.

I like to believe that many filmmakers (at least independent ones) make their films to explore subjects, not to expound on them, and if they end up in uncomfortable territory, the audience are free to talk about that (as we have) without suggesting that the filmmaker shouldn't have explored the terrain, or should have come up with different conclusions. I imagine filmmakers are too close to their work to see all of its implications. And I doubt that feedback from critics is the least bit useful to them, however useful it may be to the rest of us. They're stuck with their preconceptions, just as surely as they're limited in their ability to communicate ideas through film.
   By Lucius on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 12:00 pm:

Clean Shaven was a great performance by Peter Green....though with Green, it;s hard to say whether it was a performance.
   By Laird Barron on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 12:16 pm:

Marc,

"Hope you don't think I was veering toward uncivilized discourse...."

Not at all! I was establishing context for my argument while seeking amplification of your statement regarding the use of potentially inflammatory terms to characterize reactions to art. Thanks for doing so, by the way. I think your analysis of my potential problems with the depiction of the predator is cogent. I can't shake the feeling I was intended to overly empathize with him--that the world was evil, fate contrived against him, etc. Mileage varies, I suppose.

I'm absolutely not suggesting that the filmakers shouldn't have explored the terrain, or that some shouldn't interpret the message in a differently than I have. I'm really just exercising my prerogative to cry, "Fie on that bullshit!" And I have, perhaps excessively so. ;)

Definitely a hot button issue of mine.

Best,

Laird


   By Dave G. on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 12:42 pm:

SPOILER ALERT -- sort of

After screening the picture for her backers, Kassell reshoots the ending of The Woodsman. In her rewritten ending, Sgt. Lucas watches Walter and Vickie drive away. As they turn a corner -- literally and figuratively, one imagines -- Lucas' radio goes off. The beaten molester has awoken and has made a positive identification of Walter as his assailant. Lucas catches up with Walter's car on a main drag, and in front of a stream of noonday traffic, drags him from the car, cuffs him and throws him into his own car, over Vickie's hysterical objections. Lucas requests backup from a squad car and, after meeting up with the patrolman, takes Walter to the schoolyard where they administer a savage beating, all the while Lucas mocking Walter's desire to go straight. Lucas savagely kicks a red kickball away with the residue of his anger and throws Walter in the back of the squad car. As the uniformed officer drives away, Lucas picks up something that has fallen from Walter's pocket: a torn-out page from the journal Walter had tried to keep for his shrink, one which he lamented the difficulties that lay ahead and expressed a hope for a better life. Lucas crumples it and tosses it into the trash atop a collection of discarded food wrappers and school supplies. "Another one bites the dust," Lucas muses, as he kicks a stone and ambles toward his car. He drives off into the distance. Fin.

Question: Would we now be having the animated, and somewhat contentious discussion about The Woodsman's merits and the corrosive nature of its ideas, or would it go down as a somewhat ambitious, well-made, if socially-misguided indie effort?

Discuss.
   By MarcL on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 01:26 pm:

Are you sure that's not a scene from MIXUP RIVER?
   By Lucius on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 05:10 pm:

New thread below.
   By StephenB on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 02:23 pm:

Where?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 03:12 pm:   

Here.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 04:14 pm:   

Have you seen or plan on seeing the spanish movie, Bad Education, Lucius? It has some similar themes being discussed here, like Catholic education and pedophilia. I haven't seen it, I've just heard about it.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 04:21 pm:   

It hasn't showed up in Portland yet, but I may see it.
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:28 am:   

Yesterday watched a documentary called OKIE NOODLING, about the time-honored practice of catching enormous catfish by hand. Nice lowkey soundtrack by Flaming Lips was the highlight. It was a 1 hr documentary that should have been cut to half that; after a certain point it was just repetitive.

Then we watched VANITY FAIR. I'm a sucker for English manorhouse movies...Victorian, Georgian, Regency, Dickens, Austen, whathaveyou. But this is one of the weakest I've seen. Really a muddle, with the main characters so bland that it was hard to tell one from another or care about any of them. Limp. Weaksauce. Reese Witherspoon was utterly blah. It made me want to read the book, though.

It'd be cool if someone would take on NEW GRUB STREET.

I've got Herzog's LESSONS OF DARKNESS and FATA MORGANA on the stack.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 10:36 am:   

God, Vanity Fair was awful. I snuck into the auditorium and caught the first ten minutes. Any longer and I might have estivated....
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 08:44 am:   

I don't know about good, but I watched Malpertuis over the weekend. It's a 70's adaptation of Jean Ray's novel. I enjoyed much of it, it had an eerie atmosphere.

The ending was terrible. If it were made today, I'd think the test audience didn't understand the end, so they threw together a reshoot which explains everything and also gives a typical horror movie ending (in which the protagonist realizes the story never ends, kind of like the Nightmare on Elm Street endings where they stop Freddie and he suddenly reappears in the final minute). But this was done before test audiences. Maybe the backers didn't understand the end, and insisted on changes?

Anyway, I found the book & film review at Weird Reviews to be acurate
http://www.violetbooks.com/REVIEWS/adam-malpertuis.html
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Night Shade Books
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 08:57 am:   

Robert,

Where did you come across the film? I've been looking for a copy for a while.
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Monday, February 21, 2005 - 09:13 am:   

I got a DVD-R of it (found through iOffer.com). It looks like it's made from a 2nd generation VHS.
I was going to see what I could do to clean it up and improve the packaging.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 05:47 pm:   

I've recently watched these good movies:

Saw Donnie Darko for the second time, and I think I enjoyed it even more than the first time. I would still be interested in seeing the directors cut.

Zombie: This is one of the better zombie movies I've seen. It's an Italian movie, directed by Lucio Fulci. This movie actually takes the time to give a little back story and explain why things are happening. Gotta love the scene where a zombie attacks a shark.

The Pledge: I like Jack Nicholson, and I think he gave a great performance. I wonder if the movie would be as good if Jack wasn't cast? Probably not. This is the first Sean Penn movie I;ve seen and I hope he holds to his guns and continues to make good original and unconventional films (by hollywoods standards at least). Really liked the ending, partly because I didn't see it comming.

The Thing: I really enjoyed John Carpenter's sci-fi\horror B movie. Kurt Russel fits the role well. Some really effective scenes. I especially liked the scene where MacReady has everyone tied up to test their blood. Has anyone read the story this movie's based on by John Campbell?

Nausicaa: This movie, from Miyazaki, deals with the same themes as Princess Mononoke, but it has a more science fiction kind of setting. The animation's good, of course, and the story is pretty solid. Japan makes better animated films than America. This movie might actually get people to think about things they wouldn't want to in their little Disneyfied American network world. Ironically Disney publishes these movies in North America. But this is not like Disney's own crappy animated movies. I know Lucius, that you're not into any sort of animated movie, but you might even enjoy a Miyazaki film.
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 06:30 pm:   

Some nice films in this batch. I didn't see the ending of The Pledge coming, and that impressed me (it's so rare for a film to have a surprising plot).

Nausicaa was good, but far from my favorite Miyazaki. His later films are better. I'm not sure if Japan makes better animated films, but Miyazaki does. For each Miyazaki film, there are many more crappy ones. Just like for each good American animation (like the Iron Giant), there are a lot more bad ones.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 06:46 pm:   

Nausicaa was good, but far from my favorite Miyazaki.

Yeah me too.

I'm not sure if Japan makes better animated films, but Miyazaki does. For each Miyazaki film, there are many more crappy ones. Just like for each good American animation (like the Iron Giant), there are a lot more bad ones.

I haven't seen the Iron Giant but I've heard good things. I really do believe that overall Japan makes better animated movies. Sure, some anime is terrible, but I really don't watch that much of it. But take what you consider the best Japanese animated movies -- like say, Spirited Away and Ghost in the Shell 2, as examples. Then take your favorite American animated movies. Compare both, which do you think are better?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 06:46 pm:   

Beieve it or not, the Pledge derives from a Friedrich Durrenmat novel....
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 08:50 pm:   

Saw The Return by first time Russian director Andrei Zvyagintsev. Pretty fucking great. It's about two boys whose father returns home after a twelve year absence. They live on a lake and soon after he comes back into their lives, he takes them on an extended fishing trip. But it soon appears that it's not fishing he has in mind. Very atmospheric. Terrific character study with great acting by the two kids. If i said much more about the movie, I'd screw it up for you....

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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 09:58 pm:   

I heard about THE RETURN and it sounded great...looking forward to that.

I'm halfway through FRIEND, then I've got MEMORIES OF MURDER and HELL-HOUSE...supposedly a very entertaining documentary about TeXian Fundamentalists who build haunted houses.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 10:15 pm:   

Wow, that sounds weird. I'll check it out.
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Bill Reynolds/Socrates17
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 04:47 am:   

La Niña Santa:

As long as I have painted myself into a corner as the lone advocate of Cinema Argentine, as well as of, apparently, newer films from France and Spain, I need to bring up the cited masterpiece.

By Lucretia Martel, it is subtle, brilliantly filmed and acted and is thoroughly subversive in its approach to common wisdom regarding paedophilia; questioning our normal responses of good vs evil and innocence vs experience. Beyond the hot-button issue, the discourse is ultimately of spirituality and truth.

Filmed in the languid, humid location of a hotel in the northern city of Salta ("Saltus" in The Book of the New Sun) that has seen better days, it treats the hotel as another character. Including the hotel, it concentrates on character close-ups; and especially ones of the luminous Amalia (María Alche) and the deeply troubled Dr. Jano (Carlos Belloso.)

Empire magazine, in a uniquely perceptive review, compared it with Bresson. (Although they did complain about an "inconclusive" ending whereas I thought it ended at precisely the right point.)

Given both the pacing and the subject matter, I would not have much hope for a DVD release were it not for the fact that HBO is the "International Distributor." We'll see. (And so should you if you get the chance.) I wandered around Mayfair (NOT a part of London where I would usually be caught dead) for nearly an hour looking for the venue before finding it just barely in time and I shudder to think what I would have missed had I given up.
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Mastadge
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 07:49 am:   

I thought IRON GIANT was a bit overrated. It was good, sure, but it was E.T.

THE INCREDIBLES was much better.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 08:14 am:   

I saw La Cienaga (sp?), Martell's previous film and thought it was lame, sort of a fake docu with a dolce vita-ish feel. But I'll check the new one out...
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 08:40 am:   

ZOMBIE? Why waste your time? Just go for it and rent CANNIBAL HOLOCAUST and you'll never have to watch another gialli film again!

When I was in Austin, the woman at my hotel told me about one of these big used-car showroom-looking mega-churches called PromiseLand that did a haunted house at Halloween designed to show all the little boys and girls the torments of Hell if they were bad. I was eating my heart out that I wasn't going to be in Austin for Halloween! Sounds like an awesome time!
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 03:53 pm:   

I'll try to find Cannibal Holocaust sometime Dave. My friends, who are big into zombie movies, own Zombie.
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Night Shade Books
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 08:44 pm:   

Cannibal Holocaust and Zombie aren't exactly the same kind of thing. One is a zombie movie, one is a cannibal movie, and neither of them are even remotely considered giallo.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 09:31 pm:   

Watched a wierd little flick tonight. Revenger's Tragedy, dir. by Alex Cox. A circa 1600 play set in a strange modern world, a post-apocalyptic Liverpool. With Christopher Ecclestone. Prettty damn good.
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MarcL
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 12:47 am:   

Years ago I wrote a modern version of Revenger's Tragedy called Tragic Heights and then Deep End. It was set in a rundown L.A. apartment building. Several versions--a short novel and then a screenplay. Carried it around for years. I couldn't bear to watch Cox's version. Sigh. Guess I'll give in.

Cox was working on a project with Paul Mavrides called 1964-1/2, about UFO's and the Kennedy assassination. Combination movie project and graphic novel. I wish they'd finish it someday.

Hey, I just finished watching Memories of Murder--wow. I'll add that to the foreign film threads.
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MarcL
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 12:59 am:   

Today I went to the zoo and sat in front of the monkey cage for 90 minutes while annoyed and frustrated creatures showered the audience with turds. Oh wait...no, it wasn't the zoo. And it wasn't a cage. It was a movie screen. I tried to block it out but it's coming back to me now...oh, I remember. The movie I planned to see with my kids was gone from the theater, so we walked into ARE WE THERE YET? instead.

The turds were real, though.
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MarcL
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 12:59 am:   

I liked the part where they ate Richard Gere's heart in AMERICAN GIALLO.
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Bill Reynolds/Socrates17
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 04:46 am:   

I haven't seen La Cienaga so I can't comment. Want to give it a gander and ordered it from Amazon nevertheless. I know that it was also filmed in Salta, and that it was intended as a comment on Argentine society which may have been the reason for a docudrama approach. Argentinians love psychoanalysis. I read somewhere that there are more analysts per capita there than in any other country. My Argentinian ex-girlfriend (prior to my Korean wife - who is helping me track down many of the films discussed here) had been a student of Jungian analysis in Buenos Aires, but needed to flee during the dictatorship since the Generals decided all analysts were left-wing. (Hmpf. They should have met Suzy, political convictions being a major reason I broke up with her.)

La Niña Santa dealt with much more universal issues and didn't give me that feel at all.

On a somewhat more surreal note:
I just found out that Aki Kaurismaki's concert film Total Balalaika Show featuring a deranged pairing of The Leningrad Cowboys and The Alexandrov Red Army Choir will be released in the US on April 26th making it no longer necessary to deal with Amazon Japan in order to obtain this mind-altering musical extravaganza. Now, if they would only follow this up with the balance of his oeuvres....

Revenger's Tragedy sounds really spiffy. Based on your comment, I just ordered it from Amazon and I'm sure this was the right thing to do. Of course, I won't be able to watch it (or La Cienaga) until I swing through the US again sometime in early April.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 05:50 am:   

Bill, I saw the Cowboys and the Red Army Choir performing Sweet Home Alabama on the MTV awards about ten years ago. It was the most profoundly brilliant moment of Television I've ever seen. I can't wait for April 26. I agree -- Bring Kaurismaki to DVD.

I think Alex Cox is terribly underrated. He's only done about ten feature films, but they're always worth watching, even when they're not so good. I haven't seen Walker, his most controversial film (though I do have the soundtrack by Joe Strummer--great) but I'm taking steps to correct that omission.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 05:55 am:   


?w
??feel yr pain re Are We There Yet. It's sad, because Cube is such a good actor. I think I may have mentioned elsewhere, my biggest disappointment in Hwood is a script we wrote for him, a remaker of M, which he was eager to do, but got shut down.
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MarcL
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:11 am:   

Cube is good. The sad thing about this is that he knew what he was getting into. He's a co-producer. If he thought he was making a timeless childhood classic, then...speechless...
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 11:22 am:   

Bascally, he's started to understand Hollywood. :-(
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Dave G.
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 08:55 pm:   

Nightshade, how are you defining gialli? The horror texts I've seen definitely include the classic Italian zombie and cannibal gut-munchers under that label...
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Dave G.
Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 09:01 pm:   

Never mind. I toured a few websites and see that they apply the definition more to "erotic thrillers" like Argento's Bird with the Crystal Plumage, Deep Red Hatchet Murders, etc. I may have been misled by someone who misapplied the term in one of the books I read. I stand corrected.

But among Amazonian gut-munchers, Cannibal Holocaust is still primo!
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 12:55 am:   

I wish Dario Argente had directed ARE WE THERE YETf?
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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 02:08 am:   

Just watched Chocolat and liked it. Good acting, story, and message. Most of you have probably already seen it.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 05:19 am:   

Marc, that would have been pretty terrific. I with Kaurisnaki had directed Braveheart....


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Dave G.
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 01:33 pm:   

I wish Dario Argento had directed MAN OF THE HOUSE with Tommy Lee Jones and Cedric.

Now, there's a script uniquely suited to his talents, if ever there was one.
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 02:14 pm:   

You're right! As the cheerleaders begin to die, one by one, all suspicion turns to Cedric the Entertainer. Then he winds up dead, and the finger points firmly at Karl Malden I mean Tommy Lee Jones.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 02:19 pm:   

On the other hand, I sorta wish John Hughes had directed most Argento flicks....
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 03:41 pm:   

I've only seen a couple Argento movies. Suspiria I sought out on purpose, and didn't bother tracking down any others. But THE BIRD WITH THE CRYSTAL PLUMAGE I saw in the theater, quite by accident, when I was 10 or 11. As a treat for my brother's 8th (or 9th) birthday, our mother dropped us off at the theater expecting a war movie which had been advertised the week before. When the Argento movie started we had no idea what we were in for. My brother wasn't allowed to see horror movies because they gave him nightmares, and that night he had some terrible ones. I was thrilled, though. It was like a surprise birthday present for me.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 04:51 pm:   

That's a sweet memory, Mark. :-) Me, I think the guy makes rotten movies. SUSPIRIA is about as good as it gets. The best things about 'em are the scores by Morricone.

I hope your brother recovered.
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 05:35 pm:   

As I recall SUSPIRIA didn't even have that. The soundtrack was by some unit called The Goblins...they made a really big deal of it in the promotions. No, I'm not a big fan. I prefer Bava.

Well, IMDB told me a couple things I didn't know about Suspiria. First, it's based on a book by Thomas De Quincy. He has a few other things linked on IMDB. Maybe he should get an agent.

Next, the tagline is a great set-up for a huge let-down: "The Only Thing More Terrifying Than The Last 12 Minutes Of This Film Are The First 92." Sorta like saying, "You've tried the best, now try the rest."
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 05:48 pm:   

Yeah, the tagline neglects the fatal ennui of the central 1 minute..

I remember the Goblins. They were supposed to be a big deal....?
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Dave G.
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 07:46 pm:   

In fact, Lucius played timbales in the Goblins. Well, er, one of the later incarnations...:-)

Suspiria is the best Argento. There are some amazing underwater haunted apartment scenes in the rarely-seen Inferno that are quite eye-catching. His movies aren't that great, but there are so few actual stylists in the horror genre, Argento seems like Fellini.

Damn, I really wanted Virginia Madsen to win Best Supporting Actress. Guess she did one too many Lifetime crazy-slut operas for the Academy's taste. It went to Cate Blanchett -- ralllllly it did -- for her impers, er, I mean, PORTRAYAL, of Kate Hepburn.
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:22 pm:   

I was happy to see Kaufman win one for ETERNAL SUNSHINE.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:38 pm:   

You guys are watching the Oscars? Watching the half-dead wallow in self congratulation? Well, god bless you....
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:39 pm:   

I coulda told ya the winners beforehand...you probably could have too....
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:41 pm:   

Heh. Picture the scene. I'm in here. The rest of the family is in there.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 08:46 pm:   

Yow. Surreal. Not me. I'm really wasting my time. Watching the NFL combine. At least there are no dresses by Versace...
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 10:09 pm:   

It was the dullest AA in memory. I couldn't figure out why my kids wanted to watch it since there weren't any movies of interest to them apart from maybe THE INCREDIBLES. No LOTR. They rooted for Lemony Snicket the couple of times it came up. Then, toward the end, my oldest asked, "When are they going to do the awards for best kid movies?" She thought that was what SPIRITED AWAY had won a couple years ago.

In defense of bad TV, especially of this variety, it can either send me into a coma, provoke fits of rage, or give me ideas for stories.

It was cool to see Sidney Lumet.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 10:14 pm:   

Yeah, Lumet's made some watchable films. I liked the Verdict a lot.

So which was it, coma rage or story ideas?

I had every winner pegged except for best adapted screenplay. I was bored and I didn't even watch.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 12:27 am:   

I didn't pay enough attention to the proceedings to have any real reaction. I just wanted everyone to stop using the TV so I could play more Resident Evil 4.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 03:39 am:   

I;ve played three video games in my lfe. Myst--I gave up after about an hour. Doom--U gave up after about an hour and a half. A baseball game--I played for about six days straight and gave up. Maybe Resident Evil would do it for me.

Million Dollar Baby...man! That's so fucking hilarious.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 06:41 am:   

I had really thought that The Aviator was going to win, since the early awards (costume, supporting actress) set up for a Marty Sweep. I think this was the weakest Best Picture field in a long time.

Yeah, it was a boring show. No fashion disasters. Even listening to Josh Groban wasn't that bad, since we could look at Beyonce.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 07:23 am:   

Note. Robin Williams did his bannner gay cartoon schtick at the spirit awards, and I have to admit, despite hating the non-doper RW, it was pretty damn funny. In fact, the Spirit Awards are a whole lot more entertaining than the Oscars.

I think the field in general was the weakest ever, but I say that every year...and it;s true every year.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 09:46 am:   

Yes, Dave, the only time I came out of my cave was when Beyonce was onscreen. My family was kind enough to provide this information.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:02 am:   

I hope they provided the information that Salma Hayek was onscreen, too. Great googamooga! When did she become the most amazing looking woman on earth? Is Edward Norton out of his mind?

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T Andrews
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:03 am:   

Hi Lucius and all. Can I just rant for one sec?
As great as Beyonce is, I'd just like to know:
Is she the only singer in The United States of America??? I mean, really---three songs?
And Hilary's trailer park schtick again. What's so bad about a trailer park anyway? Honestly? It's not like she arose barefoot and illiterate out of the third world. And she's been outta that park for a looong time. And she still can't pick a decent dress.
Chris Rock's best line was one of his first: This is the 77th and final Academy Awards.
I should've turned the tv off after that.
Phew. Thanks. Much better now.
Oh--"Ryan" winning was a good call.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:07 am:   

...and were those Sidney Lumet's daughters up there in that side box? Wow. There's some quality genetic material in that fam, definitely.

Beyonce doing three songs may have been a bit much, but, consider...who might they have gotten instead? Kelly Clarkson? Fantasia?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 10:20 am:   

Dave, what is it with you and women on-screen? There must be some real women around, right? Beyonce and that silicon Lumet girl don't do a thing for me. You gotta remember that movie stars are chosen because they PHOTOGRAPH well. Most of them, up close, are pretty damn ordinary; some are downright unsightly. Not that there's anything wrong with ordinary. Give me a sexy ordinary girl any ol' day.

T, rant away.

Yup, it was a drag. Rock wasn't funny. And the awards sucked. Didn't see Ryan.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 11:17 am:   

Swank's trailer park upbringing makes her perfect for the part of Chevette in the VIRTUAL LIGHT movie they'll hopefully never make. "I want to thank my mother for leaving me the keys to the trailer and a can of tomato soup as a farewell note."

"I'm just a girl from a trailer park"...I think we've got the makings of a musical number here.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 12:09 pm:   

Here's the game that was made just for you, Lucius:

http://www.angelfire.com/scary/worldofideas/

I direct your attention specifically to the screenshots:

http://www.angelfire.com/scary/worldofideas/Screens/SS.html

Who can resist?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   

Oh, yeah...pretty great, but all that toggle stuff puts me off. Pretty great. Doom or Quake is more my speed
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 01:28 pm:   

Jeepers, Lucius, what a killjoy...:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 01:49 pm:   

No, Dave...I guess it's just I've met actresses and they can be very unsexy people. Even if they are good-looking. I never relate to actresses that way, for that reason.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 02:20 pm:   

Case in point.. I was at a thing in Hollywood, kind of a party/opening; I was with this friend of mine who serves a celbrity whore for official functions, and Mira Sorvino, ostensibly a babe, was also there. Looking good, no doubt. But before long, this guy I knew failed to recognize her and she went off on him, changing in mere seconds from a good lookng woman into a ternagant, showing off that mid double figures IQ in the process. Uglee. In the words of Frank Zappa......What is the ugliest part of your body? Some say it's your nose, some sy its your toes, but I think it's your mind...
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 02:40 pm:   

That must have been rough for your friend, but I must confess, I would have laughed at Mira, whose career has been a one-way escalator since Oscar, reaming out some guy who failed to recognize her.

If your friend was a real hoot, he would have called her "Marissa Tomei" just to see what kind of a rise that would get...It would have almost been worth it. :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 02:48 pm:   

According to her official bio on imdb, she graduated Harvard magna cum laude and is fluent in Mandarin.

Are you sure you weren't a mite hasty in your assessment, Mr. S? :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 03:03 pm:   

She was not speaking in Mandarin, but I guarantee her delivery was not Harvard but Hollywood Hooker. As I recall, she said, You are just showing your ignorance. I am an Oscar winner and....

I can't recall the rest, because I wasn't listening. It wasn't rough on my friend. He could have given a shit....Egostorms happen all the time.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 03:13 pm:   

In my alternate existence, where I was an editor at Price Stern Sloan coming up with ideas for novelty books, I always wanted to put together a book called BRUSHES WITH GREATNESS, a collection of anecdotes of near-misses with near-celebrities.

Pretty much everyone has one of these stories, which are sparked when I bring up the concept.

Here's one of my favorites: "I was in an airport once when they paged Wink Martindale."
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 04:15 pm:   

I was staying with a magazine editor friend of mine. She had to run in and take a quick shower, but asked me to pick up the phone if it rang. Sure enough, a call comes in and I pick it up. It is Diane Lane, wanting to reschedule an interview for later that afternoon.

(N.B.: She seemed quite nice.)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 04:24 pm:   

I got a lot of 'em; unfortunately they're not all near misses. I have a Jeff Fahey story that's very good, but it's too long to write. Jeff Krober actually optioned a story of mine once, and I had to deal with him a lot. The weirdest one, one time I got a call from William Saroyan's son; he was a minor player in Hwood; he was surprised I'd heard of his dad.
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JJA
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 05:52 pm:   

Has anyone seen that new Korean anime film, SKY BLUE yet? I've heard some very good things about it.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 06:04 pm:   

Nope. Not me.
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Mastadge
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 08:55 pm:   

Terrence Malick is making a movie called THE NEW WORLD about European/Native American relations in the seventeenth century, with Pocahontas and all that. Does anyone know anything much about this? Does it look like a movie that might turn out well?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 09:08 pm:   

I don't know more than what you've stated about the movie, but Malick, IMO, is an amazing director, and if anyone can handle this material the right way, I believe he can. My reaction to this news is Wow. Great!
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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 01:18 am:   

I saw the trailer for THE NEW WORLD a month or two ago, probably on AICN. It's definitely around. It looked promising.

Anyone else remember BLACK ROBE? I watched it several times a number of years ago; I loved how it depicted the Jesuits and the Huron living in about equal squalor, and both quite savage.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 05:46 am:   

Yeah, I remember BR. Good movie. Hard to believe the same guy who made it and Tender Mercies gave us Double Jeopardy.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:58 am:   

SCIFI channel is advertising a movie called MANSQUITO. William Castle rolls over.
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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:05 pm:   

Samantis Hamm...tell me you didn't have anything to with this.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:11 pm:   

Hmmmmm.....
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Adam-Troy
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:39 pm:   

It strikes me that one of the chief drawbacks of fame on the Hollywood scale is that any moment when you're not at your best is taken as emblematic of your entire personality. I mean, I know a lot of these people are turds, but I've met a few and I know that a lot just as pointedly aren't. I'm sure that some have just been caught in bad moments. (I know that I went to at least one sf con at a bad time in my life when stress made me something less than sane, and I'm sure that there are folks who know me only from that context who tell stories about that day, illustrating it as a perfect example of what I'm "like." Multiply that low level of fame by millions, send paparazzi, and NOBODY looks good.)

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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 12:46 pm:   

This was in reference to...Mira Sorvino? If so, your sympathy is misplaced. Ms Sorvino is a flaming c-word.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 01:20 pm:   

I would go further and pretty much concur with Hitchcock in his assessment of actors. My Hollywood agent, as I believe I've said before, always says, He's (She's) smart for an actor, when discussing someone's intellect. In my experience, this is appropriate. There are a few exceptions, granted, but they make the rule, rather than break it. I note Sean Penn's (an actor I respect) humorless assessment of Jude Law's ability--did he really think Chris Rock didn't know Jude Law? Smart for an actor.
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Adam-Troy Castro
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 02:09 pm:   

No, not Mira Sorvino in particular.

I know of some smart actors (as well as some staggeringly dumb ones), but y'know: I think the stage folk tend to be smarter than the Hollywood cattle call contingent.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 02:15 pm:   

Yup...agreed.

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Adam-Troy
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 02:42 pm:   

I should also mention that some of the intelligence I noticed comes from folk better described as actor-writers. Folks better known as actors, who impressed me later with their ability to express themselves, in fact or fiction, on the printed page. It's easy to catch relative intelligence in that case. (Penn may not have a sense of humor -- though in his defense that moment was in service of someone other than himself -- but he can write. He's literate. He's relatively politically informed. That puts him in the smart half of the spectrum, I'd say.) (Same, it occurs to me, with Steve Martin. And Eastwood, whatever you think of any particular, individual movie.)

The other side would be represented by folks by Melanie Griffith, who had never heard of the Holocaust before she encountered it in a script and had the extreme bad judgment to then offer pronouncements on its wrongness, and Michael Rappaport, who I once observed on a game show and who seems to have NO knowledge of anything whatsoever.

Also on the dumb side: a certain teen idol, big now, who recently proudly revealed that she'd never read a book. But has recently started and has finished FOUR over the past year. I wish I could recall her name.

Comedians are tend to be more intelligent than the vast majority of actors. There are dumb comedians, but the ability to write your own material, especially good material, is strong evidence of a working brain.

Anyway, I'm only reacting to the absolutism of some of these statements. And expressing my opinion that it's usually iffy to judge folks solely on the basis of a bad public moment. I certainly don't think they're beyond criticism -- I mean, I know that some of these folks are genuine monsters. (Most folks who spent any time at all with Peter Sellers, for instance, quickly regretted it...)

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T Andrews
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 02:57 pm:   

I worked for a number of years at a ski resort. Encountered a variety of celebrities. The vulgarly wealthy A-lister at leisure can be a beast like no other...

Black Robe is a beautiful movie. Hadn't thought of it in years. Thanks for the reminisce.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 03:07 pm:   

A message board is a message board. It's perfect for absolutism. I still think Penn's remark illustrates perfectly my agent's meaning of Smart For An Actor. I've known two actors who I considered authentically smart. One is Ice Cube, who falls into the writer/actor category, and the other is James Caan, when sober. That's not a high percentage. Whatever...it's a negligible topic, really. But it's fun to pop celebrity balloons, because really we're popping our own.
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 03:31 pm:   

Sean Penn's comments only reinforce my inclination that Jack had a lot to do with The Pledge being good. Now Jack Nickleson's smart... for an actor.

I've "met" celebrities because the restaurant I worked at was popular for them. As an example, I helped serve Kevin Costner's table. Based on that, I can't really make judgements about his intellect. He had a presence though. Can an idiot be said to have a presence? I think I know the answer... but I don't think Costner's an idiot.

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MarcL
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 03:34 pm:   

"A message board is a message board. It's perfect for absolutism."

NO IT'S NOT!
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 08:05 pm:   

Yo mama!
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 08:15 pm:   

Watched a French thriller called The Nest. A B-movie. Pretty great. Reminiscent of Assault on Precinct 13, a lit tle more complex. Not a classic, but lots of fun.

Can't wait for Khan's Red Lights to come out on DVD March 22.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 08:32 pm:   

I think Penn's a good director. Or else you have to credit Nicholson with all the flaws in The Crossing Guard.

My ex-girlfriend worked at a restaurant like the one you mention, but this was on Nantucket. Once she waited on Mike Tyson and his two bodyguards. Mike ordered two Caesar salads. She told him that the Cearsar salads were enormous and he might want to order just one and then see if he wanted another.
Tyson stared at her and then looked at one of his bodyguards. The bodyguard fixed her with a mean look and said, Champ ordered two.

:-)

I suspect Costner may be an idiot from anecdotal evidence that's come my way. I know for sure he's a bad director, despite having won the Oscar for the first Sioux music video....

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Mastadge
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 09:15 pm:   

I just watched DOG SOLDIERS. A little b-list movie, basically ALIENS with werewolves. A lot of fun.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 10:11 pm:   

Yeah, Dog Soldiers was pretty cool. So was Ginger Snaps.
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Bill Reynolds/Socrates17
Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:32 pm:   

Lucius
I never watched the MTV awards but I happened to be channel surfing and hit MTV just in time to hear Rosanne Barr say "...Leningrad Cowboys." I screeched, scared the cat, and stared in amazement. Yeah, it was pretty hot. I taped it when the awards were rerun in the middle of the night. I remember Rosanne made some typically tasteful remark about "Commies."

Virginie Ledoyen says she is always reading and that no one would recognize her.
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MarcL
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 12:26 am:   

Was Dog Soldiers the WWI trench warfare werewolf film? I remember reading about that a couple years ago. Sounded fun.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 03:06 am:   

No, Dog Soldiers was sort of a war games thing sonehere in Britain.

Bill, yeah, the curtain rose and the Red Army Choir broke into Sweet Home Alabama....

Brilliant....
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 03:09 am:   

I meant to say, contemporary Britain...
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 05:47 am:   

Costner, compared to actors like Cruise and Travolta, can't be that much of an idiot, but he's still likely a bit of an idiot, I guess. Maybe he'd be best described as not that much of an idiot... for an actor.

Here's another celebrity anectdote for you. Jackie Chan's people had booked a private party for him and his crew in the lounge. Jackie Chan rolls in with a whole gaggle of young, giggling, fourteen year old school girls in tow. He stays for only twenty minutes or so, before leaving with his underage entourage. A little creepy is what that was.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 06:04 am:   

Nothing really surprises me anymore. Like Streisand says, People...people who eat people, are the luckiest people in the world...
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:08 am:   

A friend of a friend of mine almost got pounded by Vince Vaughn for shooting video of him while he was on vacation.
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Bill Reynolds/Socrates17
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:29 am:   

It would whet the appetite right now to bring up a tasty little number such as Ravenous. I skimmed (rather than bored into the meat of) our recent discussions and could find nary a reference to this film. So I am sorry if I am re-treading upon pre-trod ground.

Bumbling into Ravenous here in Qingdao on Sky Movies in the middle of a Sunny Sunday afternoon, I was facinated. My wife, fortunately, was out having dinner. I hadn't joind her, not, at that juncture, being peckish.

However, her extremely negative reaction to the Korean film Nabi when I offered it as a viewing experience (her negative PoV being based on hearsay) convinces me she needs to do more work.

The more I work at this post, the less sense I will make, so I think it is time to join sweet Lethe
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MarcL
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 07:48 am:   

I'm a big fan of Ravenous. The extras on the DVD are great as well. I loved Bird's philosophy about why even good scenes had to be cut. I listened to a bit of her commentary with Damon Albarns...especially the discovery at the cave--it's hilarious. I mean to sit down and watch the whole movie with her commentary running sometime.

And it has the best soundtrack ever.
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Bill Reynolds/Socrates17
Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 08:54 pm:   

Loved the soundtrack. Bought the DVD from Amazon but it is on the other side of the planet. Next time I swing by home, I'll watch with the commentary on.

I remember liking Priest when it was in the theater but I never bought the DVD (in fact I don't know if there is one but I suspect there is) so I've only seen it the once.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 02:27 pm:   

Have anyone seen Cronenberg's The History of Violence? I think it should be killer.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 02:37 pm:   

HAs.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:00 pm:   

I hasn't :-)
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:03 pm:   

:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:10 pm:   

For fans of the Ravenous soundtrack, I say, Bah Humbug!! The greatest soundtrack ever recorded is Joe Strummer's soundtrack for Walker....
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:21 pm:   

Just to clarify the Jackie Chan anectdote -- as I wasn't actually working that night but heard about it -- because I might be painting an unfair picture of the man. I guess he showed up with a bunch of teenagers (on the young side) and a bunch of dogs. All he ordered all night was virgin pina calodas. Maybe not so creepy but still odd. He may be just a nice guy who likes hanging out with teenagers and dogs... and a sis when it comes to the booze for an action star.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:29 pm:   

"He may be just a nice guy who likes hanging out with teenagers and dogs... and a sis when it comes to the booze for an action star."

Or vice versa... :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:31 pm:   

Let me reiterate...Best Soundtrack Ever. WALKER. Joe Strummer. I'll brook no denial. :-)
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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 03:50 pm:   

I work at a game company, where pretty much anything you're talking about at that moment is "the best thing evar." Or the worst. So, sorry if I have spread this devalued currency around. I haven't heard WALKER. We're back on Alex Cox again!

Anyway, the best track on the Ravenous soundtrack is the first, which plays as the ragged protag stumbles through the wilds on his way to the mountain camp. The work of Michael Nyman. Jangling, wheezing, brilliant. Something-something Evar.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 04:20 pm:   

WALKER is pretty special, and very hard to get now. But the Ravenous soundtrack is pretty great.
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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 04:30 pm:   

I don't see how it can be so hard to get. I think you can get the whole series on DVD now. WALKER, TEXAS RANGER, right?
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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 04:33 pm:   

Believe it or not, the local branch of the library has two copies of WALKER. I just ordered one. So at least if I want to deny your brook, I'll soon have a leg to stand on in that water. Like a heron or other tall rapacious fishing bird.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 04:56 pm:   

I keep hearing about WALKER, but never heard it. How does it stack up against the later Mescaleros records?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 05:20 pm:   

It's great. More varied.

When I said Hard to get, I meant the CD. It's very difficult to find for a reasonable price.

Don't you be denying my brook, or I'll send Brook Sheilds to torment you...
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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 05:35 pm:   

Fortunately I have a Brook Shields Shield.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 05:42 pm:   

Well, Brooks and Dunn then. That's worse.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 06:00 pm:   

How about Mel Brooks? I always got a kick out of The Producers...

Lucius, could you send Brooke Shields to torment ME? She still looked pretty cute in WONDERFUL TOWN...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 06:06 pm:   

Dave, I'll send her straightaway but you have to be blindfolded and immobilized first. She's funny thatway.
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MarcL
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 06:15 pm:   

"Brook...Brook, is that you?"

"LIE STILL, DA---aheh, aheh, koff ... *why yes, it is, Dave!*"
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 06:19 pm:   

Exactly! :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 06:35 am:   

"Brooke, I didn't know you were a trannie!"

Aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys are truly twisted. Still, it would be the most exciting date I've had in quite a while...:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 07:48 am:   

:-)
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MarcL
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 04:44 pm:   

Watched Hideo Nakata's CHAOS last night when I was way too tired to be doing such a thing. I would drift off to uneasy sleep and then jump up when some loud horrific sound woke me. Made this fragmented, disturbing movie even more nightmarish. I didn't have a clue what was going on after awhile. I know it doesn't have the supernatural undertones of RINGU, but it sure felt that way through my confusion. I think it's really sort of a Japanese DePalma movie, Vertigo by way of Audition. Freaky. I should watch it again to understand it, but I'm sort of treasuring the distorted picture I have of it in my head right now.

THE ISLE is next. And one of those Lady Snowblood movies.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 05:04 pm:   

The Isle should wake you up....:-)
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Lawrence A
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 01:49 am:   

Saw RAY, kind of what I expected. Standard Taylor Hackford, competent 'paint by the numbers' filmmaking, nothing more really.

Jamie Foxx's performance though is uncannily good and deserving of the oscar, taking into account the fairly thin script he had to work with. Made the film watchable. Makes you think, what more is he capable of if given decent material to work with?

Compared to all the dross out there, RAY is positively a masterpiece. I mean it certainly isn't (it's mediocre, predictable but passable fare), but relative to what's being churned out by the Hollywood machine, it's a shining beacon of masterful filmmaking.

Although I'm sure there are critics out there who refer to Taylor as Taylor 'the Hack' Hackford.
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adam-troy@sff.net
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 05:09 am:   

RAY was an okay film rendered better by the Jaime Foxx performance and Ray Charles music. There were a few effective supporting performances (notably the lady playing his mother.) But Foxx was much better than the script.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 08:22 am:   

,..deserving of the Oscar...

I don't even know what that means.

Ray Charles was one miserable bastard and the movie really only grazed the surface of his bad character. Thus y'all are praising Foxx for the depth of his characterization in portraying an inaccurate version of the real man. Doesn't get it for me, but whatever. The Oscar, except in financial terms, means about as much as the Hugo or the Nebula. So hell yeah. give him the Oscar. His next novie, Stealth, concerns a robot fighter plane that is struck by lightning and turns evil. Give him the Oscar for that one too, for all I care. Next year the choices are gonna be even worse.

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Night Shade Books
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 09:08 am:   

I can't fucking wait for the evil jet. So exciting.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 09:33 am:   

:-)
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JJA
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 10:06 am:   

Just watched the trailer (how could I not after hearing it was about an evil jet?). It proclaims that it's by the director of The Fast and the Furious and XXX. I was thinking that it's nice of them to warn you of that in the trailer, but then I thought Hollywood would never do anything so considerate as that. It's so sad that they think that will make us *want* to see Stealth.
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 10:29 am:   

I watched THE ISLE...yeah, it woke me right up. Should have been called THE HOOKS OF LOVE.

Some great stuff in there; I loved the absolute minimum use of dialog.

I had to cover my eyes a couple times. That should be reason enough for people on this list to rush out and watch it.

So far it doesn't bump CHI-HWA-SEON and MEMORIES OF MURDER from the list "top two favorite Korean films out of the four I've seen."
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Mastadge
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:29 am:   

JJA: Where can I find the trailer?
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JJA
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 11:34 am:   

I found the link when I looked it up on IMDB:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0382992/trailers
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T Andrews
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 12:00 pm:   

Prediction: In 2045 Haley Joel Osment wins Best Actor Oscar for portraying Clint Eastwood in the movie "Clint". Hilary Swank gives five-minute presentation speach that makes everyone cry.
It could happen. *shudder*

Nicholas Cage is starring in LaBute's (? I forget his name...the Nurse Betty director) remake of The Wicker Man. I'm tempted to shudder again, though it may be kinda fun to see Cage get wickered.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 12:19 pm:   

Except you know, don't you, T , that they'll give this a hollywood ending?
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T Andrews
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 12:54 pm:   

No-no-no! Oh, they will, won't they? The Stepford Wives comes to mind immediately. Bunch of Hollywood blasphemers...:-)


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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 01:02 pm:   

Yup. :-)

At the last minute, Cage will extricate himself or be extricated by his love interest from Mr. WIcker.

It's better to know in advance....
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 01:31 pm:   

"In 2045 Haley Joel Osment wins Best Actor Oscar for portraying Clint Eastwood in the movie 'Clint.'"

He's missing a sure bet here. They could make that movie right now, and Osment could sweep the Oscars, if it was only about the early career of Clint Howard. Masturbating Bear could stage a big comeback in the role of Gentle Ben.
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Adam-Troy Castro
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 02:09 pm:   

Clint Eastwood's life would probly make a dull movie: a long, successful career hovering near the top of the ladder, with downs that amounted to a few less ticket sales, and a personal life with only one (arguable) scandal. (The Sandra Locke palimony thing.) To have a good biopic, you really do want somebody who's a dysfunctional mess. (Peter Sellers, Frances Farmer, Bob Crane, etc.)

My bet is that the William Shatner story (which included alienating everybody during STAR TREK, homelessness after STAR TREK, and a late-life career resurgence) will be made a lot earlier than any Clint Eastwood film. And IT can star Osment. Who looks like when he gets old enough will be a good physical match.
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MarcL
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 04:36 pm:   

I wanted to put my idea out there just to be sure that if Clint Howard is googling his name, he'll get a few hits and feel better.
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T Andrews
Posted on Sunday, March 06, 2005 - 05:51 pm:   

Oh, THAT Clint Howard! I get it now. lol
Took me a few hours.
I like William Shatner. He has raised self-deprecation to an artform.

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Lawrence A
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 03:11 am:   

Who here knows or remembers that William Shatner starred in the film version of The Brothers Karamazov opposite Yul Brynner? He played Alexei. Must have been about 19/20. So he actually got off to a good start (can't remember the film, may have been a turgid mess, you can't really film Dostoyevsky) but the point is it was at least a serious effort.

Talking about Bob Crane, I gotta admit to kinda liking that biopic about him with Greg Kinnear and Defoe.

And I do know the Oscars are a joke, like the Grammys and Tonys and any award ceremony on absolutely anything full stop. Although maybe those porn film awards they give out every year have some merit (I wouldn't know), more merit certainly than the Oscars.

even if RAY was an inaccurate portrayal of the man, taking it on its own terms, is what I mean by a good performance, given the material he was working with.

Had not read Lucius's Oscar piece at electricstory when I wrote my previous message, so realise what I wrote about RAY was basically superfluous. Couldn't resist the "Hack" riff, could you Lucius? Don't blame you, true enough really.

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Lawrence A
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 04:05 am:   

Re THE INCREDIBLES, well what I am going to say is hardly original but true enough...

It, for all its faults (and I'm not going to be churlish and start listing them, who cares anyhow? It's a CGI film as much for kids as adults) is probably one of the better superhero/comic-book type films ever made by Hollywood. By a mile in fact. It had some really good humour that Spiderman, X-MEN and whatever else does not possess. Unintentional humour does not count. Also greater depths of characterisation, plot (somewhat weak in THE INCREDIBLES really but a minor quibble), and acting ability by the CGI cast than well many Oscar nominees and award winners. OK stating the obvious I know. Also more subversive than any other Hollywood live action comic-book blockbusters (not saying much I know).

I mean remember Mr Incredible working his lousy job, eating him up from the inside and how his creepy boss make it quite clear to him that all that matters is the company profits, not their clients who are there to be ripped off. Now that 5 minute sketch alone is more subversive (even if in an obvious way) than any subversion you will find (none actually) in all the collective running time of this year's Oscar nominated blather put together.

Now if only Hollywood woud go CGI in toto. Even bad CGI films (and I've yet to see one that falls truly flat, even the mediocre Shark Tale had its moments) are better than Hollywood offal. Think about it. No ego-maniacal and obtuse actors, getting paid millions to act badly in dross and thinking they are doing us a favor. No scheming agents, nor directors of the Michael Bay, Emmerich and Spielberg category (I guess that means 95% of Hollywood film directors would be out of work. Kind of like imagining the Senate and Congress being put out of work. Would bring tears of joy to my eyes). No Brad Pitt, no Tom Cruise, no Keeanu Reeves etc, at least they would just be average schnooks in average anonymous jobs, and would spare the world their vacuity.

In other words if only PIXAR and other CGI studios were the only ones making commercial Hollywood product.. well that would be just fine.

Well we can dream.

Not original thoughts I admit, but true enough. I'm sure some cultural commentators have written a few articles on these same musings. Haven't read any myself.

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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 06:23 am:   

OK, how about a Pixar CGI version of Stealth, with Ian McShane or Alan Rickman as the evil bomber, and Will Smith as the plucky little fighter jet that could who gets to shoot him down? (You can throw Robin Williams or Cheech Marin in there as a TV traffic helicopter that always seems to get in the way -- "Now, THAT's what I call a rubbernecking delay!" -- or Dakota Fanning as a runaway children's balloon...) Some script problems for sure, but the main thing is, kids are gonna dig getting those little planes in their Happy Meals! Throw in a Diane Warren theme song and I think we can hit the billion mark!
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Adam-Troy
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 06:34 am:   

If you were willing to concede Dostoyevsky (as you had to when Peter Lorre once did CRIME AND PUNISHMENT as a half-hour radio play!), then THE BROTHERS KARAMAZOV was a fun '50s-style epic. The actor who ruled it was Maria Schell.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 08:27 am:   

I continue to have friends with very credible opinions come up to me and tell me how good Shatner's HAS-BEEN disc is.
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Luís
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 11:20 am:   

It's true. Shatner's CD is surprisingly good.
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New Thread Girl
Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 11:23 am:   

New thread on this subject below

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