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Ken Viola
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 10:22 am:   

Lucius- What kind of band(s) were you in? Did you write songs? What is some of your favorite music? I like a wide range of old stuff: Jazz, Blues, 50's R&R....I love the great 'rock-folk/rock-psych' era 65-68.A real melting pot, music from the inside. I wrote songs, played solo and in bands, made a few records, designed a few album covers, have worked around the business since. I wrote the book in the Buffalo Springfield boxset, worked with Grateful Dead(Garcia was my friend)and many others. Still making a living from it.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 11:44 am:   

Yeah, Lucius, rock 'n roll, baby! And what about that Hope Sandoval??
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 01:29 pm:   

I was in all kinds of bands, blues, heavy metal, etc, but the bands that counted were the ones i ran, which did all original music, I guess you'd call then prog rock with a heavy African influence==we had lots of percussion, including steel drums and electric bass marimba. I wrote the songs. My taste is eclectic. I like psych, alt-country, indie rock of the 90s, jazz, etc, That's cool you make a living from it. It wore me out.


Sandoval later. It isn't that great a story, but I;ll tell you.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 02:52 pm:   

What's your favorite rock band or bands Lucius?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 04:13 pm:   

Christ, t hat depends on the moment. Laibach, Savage Republic, Plastic People of the Universe, Sun City Girls, Velvet Underground, early John Spencer, early Roxy Music, Foetus (of the Scraping Foetus off the wheel era), Captain Beefheart, Johnny Dowd, the Mekons and their various spin-offs (anything with John Langford), Kyuss, Olivia Tremor Control, Tall Dwarf, the Renderers, pre-Nevermind Nirvana, Nebula, Howie Gelb, P Floyd, Cafe Tacuba, Los Aterciopeladas, Banda Vallarta (a lot of narcocorrida music),
the Clash, the Jesus and Mary Chain, Caroliner Rainbow, Thin White Rope (the greatest band that never made it), Cobra Verde, the Butthole Surfers, Fugazi, Mink Deville (Willy Deville), Dog-faced Hermans, Able Tasmans, Tony Williams Lifetime, Coil, Count's Rock Band, etc etc
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 07:52 pm:   

What about Led Zepplin, Rush and Tool, arguably the greatest rock bands of their decade?
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R.Wilder
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 08:48 pm:   

Cobra Verde! Oh, yeah. And the Guided By Verde version of GBV.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 08:57 pm:   

Don't much like corporate rock.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 01:45 am:   

What are you talking about Lucius? You think that Led Zepplin, Rush, and Tool are corparate rock? That's funny. Sure they are popular and have sold alot of albums and will continue to sell alot of albums. But the reason why they do well is because they are such fucking great musicians. Would you prefer they wrote shitty music, so they wouldn't become as big? Bands of that quality are rare, and the reason why bands like Led Zepplin and Tool can have complete creative control with what they produce at their level is because they are so good. Also, some of the bands on your list I would consider more corporate than those bands.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 02:18 am:   

I see you're including fusion with rock. Example would be Tony Williams. You've got Beefheart but no Zappa? Do you like some of Jeff Becks fusion albums like Blow By Blow? Would you consider Pearl Jam corporate because they gained mainstream popularity even thought they were and still are anti-corporate?
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paulw
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 03:50 am:   

Lucius,

Have you heard the band The Arcade Fire? I just got their CD, and it has some truly phenomenal songs. Their music has some Stroke-y elements, hooking into all that VU stuff, but it's also a lot more idiosyncratic. Anyway, I'd be interested in your take.
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:31 am:   

My ultimate rock track -- the guitar solo in Neil Young's, "Like a Hurricane." I haven't heard it in a few years, but it used to transport me. You gotta play it loud, though -- like so loud your fillings rattle. Being wasted doesn't hurt either.

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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:46 am:   

Stephen, taste is a funny thing. Unarguable. But since you asked...I think Tool and Rush suck. I liked the first two zeppelin albums all right, but I don't like them that much and they're corporate rock pure and simple, a group formed by a label. Did you know that Terry Reid (who should have been on my list) was the first choice for the singer of Led Zeppelin, but turned it down. Rush...to my mind they''re a joke. That rock opera of theirs...Whoa! Tool is a total rip-off. And Pearl Jam...the grunge retards? You really believe they're anti-corporate because they hate Ticketmaster? You don't think that's a marketing ploy? Yeah, they really care about their fans. They were a running joke in Seattle, on a level with stome temple pilots. "Jeremy," their big hit, made me physically ill to listen to. The grunge thing was essentially dead and being imitated by the time they came along. Jimmy Page was a good guitar, played on Bert Bacharach albums before forning Zeppelin. but this shit about Neil Pert or whatever his name is being a great drummer....my drummers were better than him. Just because a band is popular doesn't make them good. By your reasoning, Cheese Whiz would be gourmet food becuase millions of people suck it down. As far as I'm concerned they do write shitty music. Album after album of it. As to Zappa, I never really liked or disliked him. Thought Beefheart was a genius, and Zappa, who went to high school with Beefheart, was derivative of him. You seem to think I should like them both because I like one, but that's not the way taste works. I don't know who on my list you'd consider more coporate than Tool or Rush or Zeppelin, but as far as I'm concerned "creative control" is oxymoron where they're concerned. Most of the bands on my list had '"creative control" because they were indie bands. Tool and etc had creative control because they could be trusted by the bean counters to churn out more pap. Generally speaking, I like rock and roll that isn't processed and overproduced. Low-fi production values, raw. Don't much care for Beck's fusion albums. Soul-less artifacts. Liked his earlier stuff. You call Tony Williams fusion, but it felt like rock to me when I saw him. I don't care about labels.

Hey, man. You asked me who I liked. I told you. When you asked why I didn't like tool and rush, I took the easy way and said I didn't like them because they were coporate, but my actual reason is because I think they bite. Sorry. That's the way I feel. Maybe that makes me ignorant by your lights. But that is my honest answer. Nothing personal.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:47 am:   

Paul, I'll check out arcade fire. Thanks.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:51 am:   

Jeff, what are you doing up so early? I have this antipathy for neil that dates from an acid trip when a guy in the next apartment (thin walls) played the song Helpless over and over again all afternoon. By the end of the day, it was a toss-up who I wanted to hurt more, him or neil.
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 05:25 am:   

Lucius: It's time to make your peace with Neil and go listen to this song -- loud. That guy in the other room was really the devil, trying to turn you against one of the real pleasures in life and leave you helpless.
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John Klima
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 06:20 am:   

Lucius:

Have you listened to Queens of the Stone Age (formed out of the remains of Kyuss)? Just curious.

JK
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 06:35 am:   

I'll open this question up to everybody: what post-2000 bands do you consider essential listening? (Lucius: I will check out some of the ones in your list.) Over the past four years or so, my listening has dropped way off and I've let rock pass me by. My recent purchases -- in particular the Libertines CD -- have been found wanting.
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T Andrews
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 07:09 am:   

Dave G: Government Mule

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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 08:22 am:   

Jeff, I've made my peace with neil, but not with that one song. :-)

JK. I have a couple of albums by them, and like them, but not as much as Kyuss.. The drummer played with another band, UNIDA, which sounded promising. I generally like the whole stoner rock thing, from Atomic Bitchwax on....

Dave, I agree....most of post-2000 bands don't grab me, but then I've slowed my music buying and don't listen to as much. If you can find "Mental Blocks for All Ages" by the Dog Faced Hernans, go for it.

TA, didnt Govt Mule have an album in the 90s
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T Andrews
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 09:29 am:   

Lucius: yeah, I guess time flies. Their self-titled first album came out almost ten years ago now.
Sorry, Dave. I cheated. But they rock.

How about Danko Jones.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 09:37 am:   

Dave G: Bands or musicians who emerged post-2000:
Broken Social Scene, Joanna Newsome, The Thermals, Apostle of Hustle (saw 'em last night, led by lead guitar from Broken Social Scene--and based on a few Mp3s, I'd add some others from that Canadian scene, Metric and Stars), Devendra Banhart, Postal Service, The Decemberists, Neko Case, A.C.Newman and The New Pornographers.


Others who are still doing great work: P.J.Harvey, Tom Waits, Guided By Voices, Yo La Tengo, Stephen Malkmus, Sleater-Kinney, The Wrens, White Stripes, Cat Power, Death Cab for Cutie, Modest Mouse, Sonic Youth, Wilco and Jandek.

These all be only pop-rock-songform stuff, excluding jazzers, non-Westerners, modern orchestral/chamber composers or weirdos who make Strange Unlistenable Noise (Derek Bailey or AMM or Peter Brotzmann anyone?)
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Bob K.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 09:48 am:   

I'll take Stephen's side on Rush. Neil Peart has perpetrated some really cheesy lyrics, for sure. But God help me, I like Rush, and Peart is a great rock drummer. He's not a great jazz drummer -- when he changed his style on Test for Echo, it wasn't so hot -- but then, I'm not sure the great jazz drummers could play like he does, either. If Keith Moon gets respect for his drumming, Neil Peart certainly deserves some. Geddy and Alex acquit themselves well. Of all the rock concerts I've been to, the Rush shows were far and away the best, the least rote, the most energy.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 09:54 am:   

And on Zep, Rush and Tool... I grew up worshiping
the mighty Zeppelin. Jimmy Page was God to my adolescent soul. But now I just can't listen to them. From the early 70's until around '80 their songs were burned into my braincells, thanks in part to insanely constant exposure on Detroit rock stations, WRIF, WABX and W4. Even though they still have my respect, I can't listen to them without falling into a catatonic state. Oh, well, thanks FM AOR radio consultants!

During the late '70s I was a major Rush fan, too. Saw 'em at Joe Louis Arena, wowed at Peart's wanking drum prowess and squealed along with Geddy. Can't stand 'em now. After several decades of punk and indie craft Rush's music sounds overblown, chops-heavy and artificial. Thank you, Clash, Sex Pistols, Iggy, Black Flag, Minutemen, Huskur Du, Big Black, Pixies, Pavement and Buttholes!

And Tool. Well, I just don't get it. (And I got buddies who jammed with Maynard here in Ice Haven before he moved to L.A. and got it together. They can't figure out how such a fuckup "made it.") Tool's warmed over sludge metal seems lumped in with the rest of the corporate, new rock FM bands screaming themselves into mediocrity. Their spirit just doesn't move me.

'Course this musical thang is the ultimate subjective experience. One person's chirping parakeet is another's prodigal genius pet.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:11 am:   

Jeff Ford: Yeah, old Neil is a motherfucker of a guitarist, with an original sound. That's really the mark of an interesting musician to me, someone who may not be a virtuoso (or at least reveal that virtuosity with every lick) but with a unique and singular approach.

Also, Neil is timeless in a way most of his peers aren't.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:14 am:   

Bob, better even than the indigo girls? How many rock concerts have you seen.. You're not sure the great jazz drummers can do Neal Peart? Jesus. I'll grant that he's as good as Keith Moon, but Moon played with Baseball bats and is dead.

R, Neko Case has been around forever and isn't Devendra Barnhart sort of neo folk. I prefer the palace bros.. I saw Sleater-Kinney at least a dozen times and I never thought they were anything but ordinary. And cat power....that one of the bands I don't get. Peter Brotzman, though. Wow. A name to conjure with. I saw him twice with Last Exit and the great Sonny Sharrock. Ditto what you said about Iggy, the clash, the sexpistols, et al...
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:15 am:   

Did you get how the red house painters guitarist was doing imitation N young jams at the end?
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:42 am:   

Bizarre, non-pop noise recos are encouraged. I, too, had a chance to see Last Exit before Sonny S. died and was blown away.

Broken Social Scene is one of the few records I've bought this year that didn't disappoint. Hope of the States almost made that category except that the guy's voice is not too stellar.

Jandek, yeah! I wish there were stores in DC cool enough to stock Jandek records. Anyone see the Jandek documentary that someone made? It played AFI in Silver Spring once and vanished from sight.

I have to say I agree with Lucius on Cat Power. Many friends whose taste I respect have raved about Ms. Marshall and I've tried -- God, how I've tried -- to get into her. I LIKE droney, ambient, "concentrated listening" music where not much happens, but, hell's bells man...The two times I've seen Chan Marshall live are the closest I ever hope to get to experiencing coma conditions. I bought the new DVD even though two hours of Chan playing guitar in the woods should have sent me screaming for the door. Haven't watched the movie yet, but the 18-minute bonus CD included in the package had me pounding my head against my glass desk top. I'm afraid this is one li'l empress who simply has no clothes. OK, that's my Cat Power rant. Love Thurston Moore, but take his recos with a grain of salt.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:46 am:   

Not heard the red house painters. Yeah, Banhart is neo-folk although he rejects that label, says it's all rock to him. Just picked up the first Palace Bros on Drag City and getting acquainted with it. Pretty cool. Didn't know Neko had been around before 2000, at least as a solo artist. And SK, man, it's all subjective of course, but they rev me up in-concert. Maybe 'cause they're cute girls...just like Chan.

Brotzmann, fuck, he's the living monster on sax/clarinet. Missed Last Exit (shit, Sharrock is dead now too) at a rare Ann Arbor gig, but have seen Brotzmann solo, in trios and with the tentet of U.S., Swedish and Japanese musicians. What a sound!
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:52 am:   

I've got the Jandek docu at home, a screener sent to our local arthouse. They're contemplating bringing it in but haven't scheduled it yet.

I enjoyed it but need to see it again. The music geek in me enjoyed more than the filmgoer within.
The interview with Byron Coley and the Jandek phonecall are the best part.

Hey, Jandek just played a "secret" live show in Scotland. It may be released as a DVD by Corwood Industries!
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Bob
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:53 am:   

>You're not sure the great jazz drummers can do Neal Peart? Jesus.

All right, that was a troll, but yeah, better than the Indigo Girls by half. Better than ELO, Jethro Tull, Journey, Styx, Yes, by a quarter. A hair better than Blue Oyster Cult, maybe, but they're pretty good, though they lose major points for that cowbell on "Don't Fear the Reaper." Night Rider now -- they aren't even in the same league. :-)

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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 10:53 am:   

Guess I'm gonna have to look into Broken Social Scene.
When i think about L 7 performing "Shove" at the Croc Cafe, Sleater-Kinney just kinda goes away.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:04 am:   

Bob...you leave me speechless!
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:07 am:   

L 7!! They were pretty fucking cool. Sadly, I only got to see them live at a huge Festival stage where the crowd and venue dwarfed them.
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Bob
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:15 am:   

>Bob...you leave me speechless!

As you well know, I don't have what you'd call "good taste" in "music," but that does sound like a concession to me!
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:21 am:   

L 7 was the shit! That first album of theirs rerouted brain circuitry.

Bob, not a concerssion, just awe.
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Deborah
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:24 am:   

I thought Bob left you speechless and there you go speeching again...

Bob, try again.

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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:34 am:   

I hardly consider six words "speeching." I agree we have to treat Bob like a special person, as in special olympics, as far as music goes.....
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Bob K.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:41 am:   

All right, Deborah, just for you, here goes: In recent years I've added Billy Bang, Terry Reid, John Handy, and Cafe Tacuba to my collection, among others. I admit they're pretty good. Not Rush, but up there.
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Deborah
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 11:50 am:   

See, Bob, you can't give in like that. Join me in embracing the very idea of pedestrian tastes...Next time we meet, let's go out and buy Cheap Trick Live at Budokan together...
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:06 pm:   

Urp...
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Bob K.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:17 pm:   

Get thee behind me. I know you want me to want you, but this isn't playing fair. I'm not that strong.
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Deborah
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:38 pm:   

Surrender, Bob.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:40 pm:   

Who are you and what have you done with Kruger?
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:48 pm:   

I have to put Palace Bros. in with Cat Power. Just don't get the appeal of Will Oldham and his 56 solo projects and his three records a year.

Saw one of his incarnations open for Godspeed You! Black Emperor and he could have put bricks to sleep. Jandek he ain't.
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JV
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:51 pm:   

Decemberists suck. White Stripes suck. The Strokes *really* suck.

Spoon is awesome. Franz Ferdinand is pretty all right. I used to hate Green Day, but that new one is pretty darn good. Tom Waits is still great. The Church is still great. Camper Van Beethoven is back and only half sucks. Supergrass's best-of CD proves they secretly ruled the 1990s.

Pleasure Forever is pretty awesome. So is Hot Hot Heat. But the Yeah Yeah Yeah's suck big time.

Robyn Hitchcock now officially sucks, which sucks because he used to not suck, big time.

Interpol's first CD was pretty good. The second one sucks.

Crystal Method's latest is amazing trance/dance music.

JeffV

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JV
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 12:55 pm:   

Oh yeah--Cat Power sucks, too.

JeffV
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 01:29 pm:   

Spoon is awesome. Why does Hitchcock suck? The guy has been going and going for 25 years. He's entitled to a clunker every now and then. Liked the first Interpol; have only listened to the second once.

The Church is an odd example. Their first record attracted zilch attention in the states, but was pretty OK. Then, all of a sudden, three or four years later, they're huge. How'd that happen??? But I still like 'em.
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JV
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 01:34 pm:   

Hitchcock has gone into reflexive I'm-an-old-white-folk-singer mode. This lyrics aren't as strange, his musical arrangements to support them not very interesting. I wish he'd go back into full pop-rock mode for an album or two. It's distressing to see my hero falter like this.

JeffV
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 02:16 pm:   

I'm sorry to say that I neither bought nor listened to the Soft Boys reunion disc a couple of years ago. Was it any good?

I suppose one warning sign of old-white-folkie disease was Hitchock's magnum opus reimagining of Dylan's early work a couple of years back. Before that, there was a bootleg of his Mean Fiddler reconstruction of Dylan's Albert Hall concert.

But still, I mean, he wrote "I Wanna Destroy You" and "Only the Stones Remain"...
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 02:16 pm:   

Just because a band is popular doesn't make them good. By your reasoning, Cheese Whiz would be gourmet food becuase millions of people suck it down.

Lucius you misunderstood me. I'm not saying Zep, Rush, and Tool are good because they became somewhat popular. I'm saying they are good because they're great fucking bands. I think the majority of what is popular is crap, I think all the bad music in general is winning. Two things that piss me off about musical taste. People who only like what is trendy and popular at the time. And people who only like bands that are unpopular and obscure because they think it somehow makes them sophisticated, and that the level of awareness of a band somehow effects the quality. I think music should be judged for what it is, not for who listens to it.

I don't think you've really listened to all that much Tool as they are a newer band. Tool's a band that is trancending all the other bands of it's kind. It's not easy music, it won't catch you right away. Almost all of their songs are over 7 minutes, and have unradio friendly lyrics, so you'll rarely hear them played on the radio. All of their vidoes are directed and created by their guitarist with stop-motion tech. You won't really see them played on M.T.V much, because of their length, artsiness, and dark bizarness. Their success really comes down to a word of mouth phenomenom, becasue they are so fucking kick-ass. They don't market or advertise. They've had offers to use their music in Victoria Seceret commercials, which they have turned down. They have fought battles with one of their record labels (Have you heard the song Ticks and Leeches of their newest album). They have full integrity and creative control, and they are giving their fans great music. Their music is about as soulful, ballsy, and full of heart as they get. Their lyrics are actually also very intelligent. They are also just amazing live; have you seen them live? You really need to listen to each of their albums over ten times to really apprciate their music. Danny Carrey is the best modern rock drummer, no doubt about it. If a band is good live it is the true test of their skill and soul. Dismissing one of my favorite bands like Tool as corporate is inaccurate. I would feel the same if someone implied to me that one of my favorite writers, Lucius Shepard, had sold out. I could except that your writing doesn't appeal to them but I would hope that they could still see some merit in your work. Just like Tool.

I agree you've got to love Neil.:-)

Decemberists suck. White Stripes suck. The Strokes *really* suck.

I agree that the White Stripes and The Strokes suck. They are popular bands that strike me as the kind of music people who have never played an instrument in their life would like. Considering I play the drums I may be a little biased towards bands with great drummers.

Jimmy page is personlly one of my favorite guitarists, even though I know guys like Hedrix and Beck are better. My favorite Zep albums are Houses of the Holy and Physical Graffiti.

I can't believe the same people who dismiss Tool and Rush would praise the Sex Pistols. You don't get more corporate and gimicky than the sex pistols. Get some no talent guys together, who have a raw sex appeal about them, put them in fetish gear, and give them a, "I don't give a fuck attitude", and people will eat up their albums, and they won't care that these guys can't even play their chosen instruments. For punk bands in the 80's I'd have to go with Dead Kennedy's. The Clash is another corporate trendy punk band (But I still like them).


Oh and about Pearl Jam, yes I know after Ten they were kind of looked down upon by the grundge scene. This was after Kurt capped off. People thought that their whole, "we don't do videos, we don't like awards, it's all about the music" thing was just a gimmick. Thing is, it wasn't, it's just what everyone was thinking at the time. They have stood the test of time and held onto their integrity, and are an amazing live band. Infact I think Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains are the best bands to come out of the grunge scene. I love some of Nirvana's music don't get me wrong, really catchty, full of heart. But their music is rather simple and accessible compared to some of their peers.


About newer stuff (I think you guys are showing your age) in rock, I would mention, System of a Down, Massive Attack, Audio Slave (although Rage against the Machine was way better), Perfect Circle, Pygmy Love Circus, Portishead, Mudveyne, Primus, Modest Mouse ect. ect. Some of the Brit Pop scene is still pretty strong.... Chile Peppers are still going strong and only getting better, the sign of a truely good band that will be around for years to come after they're long gone. Got to mention Radiohead when it comes to recent music (yes, they're another one of those bands that trancends catagorization and become really popular, but also deserved it). I guess I could go on but I'll stop here.

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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 02:27 pm:   

Dave, the first couple Palace albums were ok.

Jeff, Slint secretly ruled the 90s, the template for endless bands.

The Church? You talkng about the 80's group. I liked them, but haven't cared for most of their post-millennial output. Last thing I liked was their cover album, Box of Birds.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 02:42 pm:   

"I can't believe the same people who dismiss Tool and Rush would praise the Sex Pistols. You don't get more corporate and gimicky than the sex pistols...The Clash is another corporate trendy punk band..."


Stephen, stumbling across the Pistols record in '77 when some guy came into my high school and sold records off a card table was a mind-blasting experience. At that point all I had heard was Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Kiss and all the other stuff on the radio. That was my gateway to The Clash, The Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, etc.

And most stuff was "corporate" in those days, as the rise of the independent labels in rock began in the '80s.


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Rich P
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 03:12 pm:   

Post 2000. How about the Moldy Peaches? They were pretty cool.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 03:15 pm:   

Massive Attacks pretty good--spotty, but good. I liked Portishead, but got bored. Primus? Les Claypool could play bass but that wasn't music, that was chops rock. Rage was cool. fpr a while. The Sex Pistols were corporate? Guess you didn;t get the joke. And you never apparently checked out their manager and his hiistory with the corporate world. Modest Mouse has been mentioned here. They're ok, not my favorite. I have to go along with Rwilders desc of Tool and Rush.. Sludge metal. I was backstage at two Tool gigs in the 90s and suffered through a couple more at the behest of my then-girlfriend who was a rock photographer. Hopefully she satisfied her ambition and now has Tool jizz oozing out her ass. The Chile peppers were good, then Hillel died and they sucked.

"Two things that piss me off about musical taste. People who only like what is trendy and popular at the time. And people who only like bands that are unpopular and obscure because they think it somehow makes them sophisticated, and that the level of awareness of a band somehow effects the quality. I think music should be judged for what it is, not for who listens to it."

How many times have I heard this? You just like this shit because it's obscure. Well, if its so obscure, how come we all know it? I like it because its relatively raw, it hasn't been processed by corporate schmucks, and it's honest, it's simple music. Rock works best as simple music, in my view. Unadorned, not drowned in production. Because it is simple music at heart. Bands like L7 had more guts than Rush dreamed off and a band like the Young Gods was way more inventive with metal than Tool.

Pearl Jam was looked down on long before TEN. I sorta liked Alice in Chains first album. We used to call Pearl Jam, Alice in Jamgarden. Did you ever hear Bleach by Nirvana? That summed up grunge. Grunge was dead by the time of Nevernind was released, and if you think that;s bs, then didn't hear the early grunge bands.

The Brit Pop scene...I don't like pop. Never have, never will. The Beatles...yuck. About the only pop act I've liked recently is Bright Eyes and his spinoff Los Desparecidos.

Radiohead....enh. They're all right. Nothing to write home about.

The thing is, I loathe bands like Tool and Rush not because they're popular, but because--in my view--they're horrid. That's fine you like 'em. I'm okay with that. But don't try and color my taste a certain way because I don't agree with you, all right?

Just because a band has battles with record companies doesn't mean they';re masters of integrity. Everyone fights battles with record companies. It's no big deal unless your publicist decides it is. Whew. Enough.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 03:41 pm:   

I wasn't saying that you only like bands that are obscure, infact many bands you've mentioned are the opposite of obscure. You are almost implying that your dislike of Tool is personal... with Tool I guess we'll just have to strongly agree to disagree. Rush... yes most people don't seem to like them (almost everyone I know doesn't like them)... I didn't like them at first, but I've recently gotten into them, with their two retrospective albums.

Yes I do like and own Facelift, but I think Dirt is their better album. Actually, just like with nirvana I like Alice's live unplugged album the best. I don't see Nirvana as the best of the grunge, they are the most trendy and widely accesible for sure. That's kind of like saying Greenday is one of the best punk bands.... Man, I can play some Nirvana songs on the guitar and I'm a drummer.
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Malkmus/Nastanovich
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 03:46 pm:   

"What about the voice of Geddy Lee?/How did it get so high?/I wonder if he speaks like an ordinary guy?"


"I know 'em and he does!"

"That's my fact checking 'cuz."

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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:18 pm:   

The Brit Pop scene...I don't like pop. Never have, never will. The Beatles...yuck. About the only pop act I've liked recently is Bright Eyes and his spinoff Los Desparecidos

Yes brit Pop isn't really my taste either, but I have some friends who are hardcore into it, so I appreciate some of the top bands. I don't think the label Brit pop is the same as pop music in general which I hate.


The Chile peppers were good, then Hillel died and they sucked.

I can see why you'd say this... when they became popular they did kind of go downhill for a bit, compared to bands like Buthole Surfers, but I think their last two albums are actually good.


Stephen, stumbling across the Pistols record in '77 when some guy came into my high school and sold records off a card table was a mind-blasting experience. At that point all I had heard was Zeppelin, Aerosmith, Kiss and all the other stuff on the radio. That was my gateway to The Clash, The Ramones, Television, Patti Smith, etc.

And most stuff was "corporate" in those days, as the rise of the independent labels in rock began in the '80s.


Fair enough R.Wilder they were something new and different at the time, and I guess a gateway to better music for you when you were young....
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:20 pm:   

Stephen, you think something you can play on the guitar is intrinsically inferior to something you can't? Cause if so, we don;t have any common ground. I repeat, check out Nirvana before they were accessible. And I didn't say they were the best grunge band. The best grunge bands never made it.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:30 pm:   

I'm not saying it is automatically inferior because it is simple and easy. You are making assumptions here. Of the popular grunge bands I just like the sound of Jerry Cantrell's guitar far better, especially the solo's, it just appeals to me more. Actually I think I like Grohl's drumming more than anything in that band, aside from Kurt of course. Overall I think I even like Layne's vocals better than Kurts, and both bands have solid rythme.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:34 pm:   

rhythm.:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:48 pm:   

The difference between Alice in Chains and Nrvana is Alice was grunge metal and Nirvana was grunge. Alice played performance pieces and Nirvana played songs. I can see why you might perfer them from a drumming standpoint, but I still want to know if you heard bleach.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 04:57 pm:   

I've heard Bleach, but I don't own it so I haven't heard as much as I've liked (I should get it sometime), I still like their live albums the best though. Still I know it's most hardcore Nirvana fans fav album for a reason. I don't see how Alice's songs are any less songs than Nirvana's. Also you have to realize that during the whole grunge boom I was like 12-13 years old. At the time I was all into the music and style, it's when I first started trying drugs and smoking and drinking. I was into the scene as much as a 13 year old could be not living in seattle... which is definately limited, but I've always l;oved the music.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 05:14 pm:   

Because they work different. You don't find many people walking and humming AiC--the complexity lobbies against that.. Anyway, if you were thrirteen...I'm beating on you for your first love. If you had lived in Seattle in the late 80s, you''d know that tthere were some tremendous bands who were never properly recorded and that really peaked the year before nevermind was released. It was a great scene. Every night bands mother love bone and dead moon and green river and nirvana were playing at the central...It was a good time.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 05:42 pm:   

Wow, that must have been great.:-)

Here's my take on Pearl Jam, anyone feel free to disagree of course, and Lucius correct me if you think I'm wrong (considering you were closer to the whole scene). Pearl Jam started as a grudge band that borrowed it's sound more from the arena rock of the 70's than punk, or alt. Partly because of this, some of the grunge scene rejected them, even though their attitude and sound was grunge. When Daughter hit the top 40 of the radio, many people, me included (even though I liked that song) dismissed them as becomming mainstream. Yes they haven't been consistantly good, but I still think they have proven themselves as a good band. I fell in love listening to the album Ten, so maybe I'm biased. But I think songs like Alive, Home, and Black are great. Unfortunately I can't help thinking that Pearl jam was the inspiration for some of the worst rock bands in the 90's, like Creed.

I remember some people hating nirvana too, because they become super popular, and the grunge scene after all was partly a reaction to all the glam-rock that dominated in the 80's. Still I think some people went to far... maybe it's optimist deep inside me comming out, but I actually think some really great music becomes popular for a reason.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 05:52 pm:   

I loved Nirvana even after "Nevermind." Never like Pearl Jam, though, mainly because Eddie Vedder was so earnest. And I never really connected them to grunge, even though they sprang from that scene. I guess I'll take fucked up and depressed over earnestness.

"Unfortunately I can't help thinking that Pearl jam was the inspiration for some of the worst rock bands in the 90's, like Creed."

You're right, and Nirvana, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains all probably contributed too. Just like Zeppelin's legacy was the atrocious hair-metal of the earlier 80's.



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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 05:57 pm:   

Lucius: Have you ever been a fan of Can? I'm diggin' "Ege Bamyasi" and "Monster Movie" tonight...Holger Czukay's bass throbbing in me head-bone.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 05:59 pm:   

Yes, Soundgarden at least had two good albums, so I like them....

I think Zeppelin's true heir's would actually be bands like Pearl Jam and Tool, and for Tool, throw in Pink Floyd.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 06:14 pm:   

Hey, R.Wilder, I'm wondering if there would be anyway to hear your radio show online? I'm spending the night writing an essay, and It'd be interesting background music.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 06:14 pm:   

I'm not gonna badmouth PJ anymore, but I will say this. Of all the people in Seattle, the only person dumb enough to hang around with Rick Mirer, who was the Seahawks qb, was Eddie. Rick was so dumb...Well, I had a student who worked for NFL graphics and he said Rick had trouble answering question like what's your favorite color? And when the two of them were together, there was sort of a negative IQ zone. But the real asshole of that whole scene was Chris Cornell. What a jerk. I was at a party at his house one time, hanging out with some musicians I knew who worked at Tower, and they were drinking a beer by the window when Cornell comes over, looks at them.sadly, and says, I used to be like you guys, drinking and doping all the time, and proceeds to give them a ten minute discourse on how he only retarded his greatness by his substance abuse. They were laughing in his face, but he didn;t even notice. Rock stars!
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 06:25 pm:   

Fuck yeah! Huge fan of Can! Monster Movie and Ege Bamyasi...most excellent!

Nobody's mentioned one of favorite Seattle bands, Screaming Trees and Mark Lanegan. Mark is the master of the bummer song.
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JV
Posted on Friday, November 12, 2004 - 06:47 pm:   

Dave:

Actually, the reunion CD of the Soft Boys was a lot better than the last few solo albums.

Lucius: Re the Church--Check out the 60-minute jam CD on the limited edition of Hologram of Baal. It kicks ass. As does their just released Jammed. Also, I thought their last CD *was* excellent after some so-so efforts. But what really still gets to me are these long guitar jams they do with no lyrics. They're wonderful.

JeffV
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Nels
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 03:30 am:   

Lucius, you mentioned the Trees... Aw, man! "Dust", "Even, If And Especially When", "Uncle Aneasthesia", "Sweet Oblivion"... The best band of the Nineties. Big fucking funeral cortege music.

The highlight of my admittedly short "career" as a rock hack was interviewing Lanegan. Fucked off his face. Hated me. Kept thinking my starstruck fannish fawning (hey, I was like twenty) was either insincere or a snidey put-on. Hell of a voice. Like a man left alone in a cave to die.

I really like "Bubblegum", his newie, but then I think of the opening to "Look At You" or "Cold Rain", and ohhhhh. That band...

PS: Am I the only guy left who loved Temple of the Dog? It's got the only thing ("Hungerstrike") with Vedder on it that I can actually listen to...
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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 03:58 am:   

I'll throw out some more, somewhat modern rock bands I like. Lucius may or may not like them.
Janes Addiction, their first three albums in the 80's of course. Deftones. Live. Sublime (I've met people from long beach who were into that whole scene at the time, and watched Lewy Dog and them slip away and die from heroin). I do like the Screaming Trees. NIN. Ben Harper. Some of Cake.

I'm suprised no ones mentioned Black Sabbath. They're classic, say what you will about ozzy, but I'm talking about the band in general here. Still I think Ozzy was a good singer untill he left Sabbath. That's one thing I've noticed about alot of people. If they don't like the lead singer, then they don't like the band. I don't think this way, and I find that's unfair to the band as a whole.
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JV
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 05:56 am:   

Yeah, but when you got that Smashing Pumpkins guy whining or screeching at you every song...oy...it's a strong incentive to hate the band. Especially when the guy is a jerk off stage. (Funniest thing I ever saw was Billy C. on MTV a few years back trying to interview Nick Cave, who wasn't in a put up with bullshit mood.)

JeffV
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 07:04 am:   


Z?? dah, in person Lanegan can be a drag...make that, is a drag. Not a real joy to be with under any circumstance, but a hell of a voice, like you said. Whiskey for the Holy Ghost....yeah. Funny you should mention Temple of the Dog. I just dug it out of the stacks yesterday and Vedder is pretty listenable on it.. But the Trees, man, they were the shit.

Jeff, will check out the Church you recommended. I still have a soft spot for that band. You know anything about Kilbey's recent solo efforts. Billy Corrigan....Slowly I turn....

RWilder, haven't heard the Moldy Peaches or Danko Jones. Any recs on what to listen to.

Stephen, uh, I played on a bill in Ypsilanti MIchigan with Sabbath...My memories of that evening remain, fortunately, unclear.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 07:15 am:   

That garbled mess at the beginning of the last post was attempting to be "Nels" Beats me what happened.
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Alex
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 08:41 am:   

Sabbath in Ypsi? Where? The Suds Factory? Or was it at the fieldhouse?

Glad Screaming Trees came up. I still play the one with "Sweet Oblivion" and "Dollar Bill" on it.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 09:08 am:   

"RWilder, haven't heard the Moldy Peaches or Danko Jones. Any recs on what to listen to."

Sorry, Lucius, that was T. Andrews on Danko, not sure who posted the Moldy Peaches. I've never heard of either.

StephenB: Not on the internet. Yet.

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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 09:23 am:   

AI, Suds Factory....heavy biker crowd.
Trees....yeah!

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Rich P.
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 11:38 am:   

The Moldy Peaches have one CD, self-titled, from '01. It came out the same day as "Love and Theft" and it's almost as good... They're a lo-tech/NY/punk-rock/folk-rock/Velvets-type band. Singer Kimya Dawson has a few solo CDs, but start with the Peaches.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 11:41 am:   

Thanks Rich.....
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MarcL
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 01:04 pm:   

I had a Holger Czukay tape that looped in my car cassette player for approx. a year, which was replaced by Magazine, which eventually gave way to Luxuria and DeVoto's solo stuff. I hated DeVoto's voice the first time I heard Luxuria; but songs like "The Beast Box" eventually overcame my resistance. He's a brilliant lyricist and he doesn't seem to care what he sounds like. Barry Adamson also ruleth. Yet what I listen to these days is Grandaddy, the recently defunct Granfalloon Bus, Barn Burning, the revivified Camper Van Beethoven.

Honestly, I can pretty much turn on or stream www.kexp.org any time of the day and find something to listen to--even in the evenings, when they run a series of specialty shows for "roadhouse" music, alt. country and twang, blues (they have an awesome punk show on Saturday nights). Every hour there are a handful of brilliant songs by bands I'd never heard of before, but which seem indispensible. I am in awe of humanity's ability to create continually great music. These are mostly all artists who don't get any airplay at all outside of stations like KEXP. They also have archived some amazing live shows (the recent Sonic Youth show on their main archive page is astonishing). Then there's the local Seattle band Smoosh, a couple of 12 year old girls. Just so much good music out there...
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 01:26 pm:   

"I am in awe of humanity's ability to create continually great music."

But not good movies.

PS--Smoosh is a twelve- and a ten-year-old.
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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 02:01 pm:   

Yes I agree, Smashing Pumpkins really suck... but that's for a bunch of reasons. They are a studio band, nothing more.

Danko Jones from what I've heard of his top 40 run is crap.

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T Andrews
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 02:47 pm:   

Lucius: Danko Jones is a Canadian band. Check out their 2002 release: Born a Lion. "Play the Blues" and "Sound of Love" excellent tracks. Hard blues-driven rock.

Just an aside here: My husband's bandroom was robbed a couple of weeks ago. Stolen were:'87 Gibson SG custom, Korina Flying V epiphone, Marshall JCM 800 2 channel head, Marshall JMP 1 channel and Marshall silver anniversary combo, as well as his case of favourite pedals. No insurance. Won't have the coin to replace them for years. He's pretty sour--but luckily, he keeps a couple guitars at home or he'd have lost everything.

Stephen: I'll forgive your Danko Jones remark, since you mentioned old Sabbath. :-)

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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 03:04 pm:   

Ok maybe crap was a bit harsh, but it's the kind radio friendly, boring, popy music that does well for a bit and then totally falls off. I might of liked him the first few times I heard him three four years ago, but it's the kind of music I'd never buy. It's not great by any stretch.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 03:32 pm:   

sorta like tool... :-)
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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 03:49 pm:   

Not at all Lucius, Tool is the opposite of that! Have you heard the albums Aenema and Lateralus? Have you heard the live album Salival? Oh and Tool is now under their own independant label because the independant label they started on got to big and they wanted out. That's what the court battle was about. Tool isn't radio music.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 03:59 pm:   

In my eyes, Tool isn't music period. To me they stand in for everything that's fucked up about rock. So lets just drop it, all right. You like em, I hate em. It;s a wash.
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StephenB
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 04:15 pm:   

And you call yourself a percussionist? Hey man, you brought them up again.:-)
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ben peek
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 07:50 pm:   

i don't get no joy from tool, but i didn't mind mynard's side band, a perfect circle. (well, the first album. it was listenable where tool wasn't, i found. never went in for the follow ups, and now that they come with copyright protection on it, i won't.)

on the earlier broken social scene recommends, i got to wonder where all you guys are coming from. talk about snooze :-)

alice in chains were cool, though. i liked the acoustic stuff they drifted into on sap and jar of flies, though i liked the original albums they had. jerry cantrell by himself has nothing of the band with him, though. (shame about staley, i thought.)

i saw a mention of the jesus and mary chain earlier, and just wondering if anyone knows much about one of the reid brothers new band, freeheat?
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benpayne
Posted on Saturday, November 13, 2004 - 09:19 pm:   

Re: Moldy Peaches...

yeah... they're way cool. Kimya Dawson solo rocks too...although she's not in any sense rock and roll... except in attitude.

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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 02:15 am:   

Perfect Circle's for Tool's little sister. But no, I like APC, compared to most current rock it's really good, as all star bands go. Tape Worm should be really good; aparently they have a bunch of songs written, but Trent and them don't think they're good enough yet. It will be good. So will Tool's next album, the drums will just be insanely sic.:-) Bjork still does some good shit.
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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 02:22 am:   

Ben, you would, probably like Alice's live MTV session album too, it's really good.
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Mahesh Raj Mohan
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 03:05 am:   

I have to admit, I need to be in a certain mood to appreciate indie rock. I'll have to hear it at 3 a.m. on Saturday morning or something and be like, 'whoa, that's fucking genius!'

Otherwise, I don't usually gravitate towards it. It usually takes me awhile to fall in love with a genre of music. Normally, I go for the overproduced stuff like Zep and STP.

Every music fan I ever talked to bows to Neal Peart's drumming, so it's a real surprise to see some big objections here. I've never been a huge Rush fan, though.

I also greatly admire stuff by the virtuosos like Steve Vai, Joe Satriani and Yngwie Malmsteen, but I rarely sit down and listen to it for fun. lol.

I love Soundgarden, Metallica, White Zombie, and A-i-C, too. I bought way more cd's and stuff when I took regular guitar lessons; it's been a year since I bought a new cd. I also dig Neil Young. That man can write a hell of an anthem.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:41 am:   

Please stop talking about Tool! My saliva's beginning to get thick and ropy!

Ben, didn;t know about freeheat. Must check it out.

I should mention I have a guilty pleasure. Devil music. Black metal. I especially like The Fields of t he Nephilim and Bathory.
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 06:20 am:   

I did't think anybody considered Fields of Nephilim as black metal, but gothic rock.

Are you familiar with Ulver at all? They started as black metal, then a black metal/folk hybrid (alternating sections of metal and folk). Then they started doing something entirely different on each album - neofolk, industrial, techno, film scores, electronic neoclassical.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 08:20 am:   

No, I put then in my devil music category. Devil music (southern term) and black metal are different categories. Yeah, I bought Ulver on your rec, Robert. Quite good.
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Robert Deverex
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 09:19 am:   

I tend to mention Ulver too often. Probably because they're one of the few non-corporate bands I listen to (any band on a major label is corporate to an extent).

I'm usually a few years behind on discovering bands, so I can't think of any essential post-2000 bands. That, and many of the bands I know just aren't essential (like Elbow is good mellow music, but hardly essential). I'm still catching up on finding good bands from the 90's.
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John Joseph Adams
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 10:04 am:   

Some good black metal (I believe death metal is the same, right?):

There's a really good band I stumbled across called Violent Work of Art (http://artists.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Violent_work_of_art/ ), that are unsigned. They're pretty raw and dark, but good stuff. "Wars to Win, Wars to Lose" is probably their best song, but all of them are pretty good. The opening (1:30 or so) of the song COMA is pretty brilliant instrumentally.

Other (signed) death metal I like:

In Flames
Killswitch Engage
Sepultura (Chaos A.D. is a brilliant album, the others vary in quality, and their new stuff minus Max Cavelra is weak)
Dimmu Borgir
Children of Bodom

Another band I'm interested in right now is called Trivium. They're not death metal; I'm not sure what category they fit in. They don't appear to have a major release yet, just a couple demo cds (yet they were featured on the new Headbanger's Ball compliation, which is much better than anything with an MTV label has a right to be). You can download an MP3 of the Headbanger's Ball track at http://www.trivium.org/download/Trivium-Like_light_to_the_flies.mp3. But even if you don't like the singing style, it's worth listening to the guitar solo that starts around the 4 minute mark.
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 12:51 pm:   

Death metal and black metal are a bit different, although it's mainly a distinction noticed by fans only. Black metal tends to be more shrill and trebblely, the vocals are not as gutteral as death metal. The production is usually worse than death metal bands. Also, black metal is almost exclusively Satanic, while death metal isn't - there are even Christian death metal bands. Not a huge difference, but enough to make sure fans can argue whether a band is death metal or black metal.

The death/black scene has the most interesting metal bands right now, at least in terms of music. They are willing to experiment, while most other metal bands are just rehashing material. Sadly, I have trouble with the vocals, so I can't fully enjoy it.
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JV
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:01 pm:   

Dare I mention Rhapsody? My stepdaughter introduced me to these insane, completely straight-faced sugar-metal epic creators...

Ultimate guilty pleasure?

Jeff
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JV
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:03 pm:   

If you haven't heard of them, please, allow me to guide you to their Legendary Website:

http://www.mightyrhapsody.com/

JeffV
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bryan
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:20 pm:   

the most interesting metal album i've heard in a while is enslaved's 'below the lights'. it's experimental without turning into prog rock or mellowing into an overproduced heavy metal pink floyd; traits common of metal "experiments".

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:39kxu3xaan7k~T1

some of the other records that i really dig right now:

reatards 'bed room disasters'
lo-fi bratty memphis punk rock and roll. a teenager obsessed with the oblivians makes a wonderful mess.

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=3765615&My token=2004102019561tyrades 'tyrades'
if the yeah yeah yeah's had bite. with a member of the baseball furies.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:zuoibkg9sakb~T1

vordul mega 'the revolution of yung havoks'
any hip hop record that samples the incredible string band has my interest. if it features one half of the prolific cannibal ox i'm buying it. heady gangsta rap.

http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/record-reviews/v/vordul-mega/the-revolution-of-yun g-havoks.shtml

damien youth 'phantoms of fables'
he is the best singer songwriter currently making music.

http://www.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=3765615&My token=20041020195616

devendra banhart 'nino rojo'
understands what made the incredible string band magical.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:dm4zef5k4gf5~T1

ariel pink 'doldrums'
strange california lo-fi psychedelia. lots of tape his to be taken in. not for everybody.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:6upyxdab5olj

animal collective 'sung tongs'
psychedelic and new. like comus on a sunny day.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:byf1zfj3eh6k~T1

dr. john 'remedies'
i'm still waiting for the dr. john to get his due. his early records deserve rediscovery. tom waits fans take notice. like a new orleans ghost orchestra.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:byf1zfj3eh6k~T1

the gories 'i know you fine, but how you doin''
post stooges, pre white stripes dee troit rock and roll.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:exs9kettkq7m~T1

well since this thread is about rock and roll i can't forget what might be the greatest rock and roll album of all time...

alex chilton's 'like flies on sherbert'
so fucked up, so rock and roll.

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:7pdyyl2jxpeb~T1
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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 04:41 pm:   

JJA, I've never seen Sepultura as death metal, and I like them. They have another killer drummer. I like how he combines brazilian rhythms with pounding metal beats. I persoanlly love playing sambas and baios.

Please stop talking about Tool! My saliva's beginning to get thick and ropy!

Ok, LOL, when I posted that I had just gotten home from a keg party, and I was still pretty stoned and buzzed.

I like Sevendust, but I'm not sure what type of metal they would be. Definately not death metal.

I like some Italian gothic metal bands like Lacuna Coil.

For Metal in general nothern european countries like Sweden tend to dominate. Especially for traditional metal, and fantasy metal.

I do like some of the big metal bands of the eighties like Iron Maiden and G&R.

So Lucius likes southern metal.... I like some of those bands too, but some seem rascist. Do you like bands like Zakk Wylde's Black Label Society, and The Union Underground?

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ben peek
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 09:15 pm:   

stephenb: yeah, i do like the mtv live album alice in chains recorded. i was kinda surprised that i liked it as much as i did, given my dislike for mtv in general.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 09:45 pm:   

Fields of the Nephilim wasn't southern. They were British. Devil music.
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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, November 14, 2004 - 11:59 pm:   

Ben: yes mtv sucks, I don't even watch it, but our Canadian mtv, muchmusic, generally sucks too, aside froma few shows like Loud. Still though, that was an amazing live performance by AiC, doesn't matter who publishes it or where it was performed, it's a great album.

Lucius: Yes I think many of the best metal bands are european. I guess I misunderstood about southern metal. Those two bands I mentioned are just some southern metal bands on my Ozzfest 2001 cd. I don't really know much about them, but I've always wondered if The Union Underground from texas were neo-nazi's or something (not cool).

What are some "black" metal bands you like Lucius?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 02:39 am:   

The one I really like is an old one --Bathory. It's too late to think about this...
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 06:45 am:   

Snooze? I love snooze! After the grunge/indie thing died out in the mid-nineties, I got kind of turned off to loud, geetar-rock. As someone once said, "it's all been done." I am willing to have my mind changed, but no one has been able to do it yet, except Guided By Voices (RIP), a band we have not yet begun to miss. I've always dug quiet music. If you are like me, try Austin, TX's Explosions in the Sky. Good stuff.

Loved the Screaming Trees (who are eulogized like gods at the Experience Music Project). Loved Siamese Dream, but agree that Corgan was a prat live (he chided the crowd for not cheering wildly enough when I saw the Punkins). Pearl Jam turned me off with the whole "grunge Monkees" way they were put together. Kinda gross.

It's not a point worth arguing too strenuously, but anyone who says that punk was "corporate rock" didn't try to turn friends onto it in the musical hinterlands in the late 70s. I got tossed out of parties for putting that stuff on the turntable. (Musta been the music, right?)

Y'know what I love about this thread? Because it mentions Can, Magazine spin-offs and the Jesus and Mary Chain. (I still feel like an ass for missing Holger Czukay at Black Cat recently.) JMC ran hot and cold but when they were on, they were awe-inspiring. Darklands is one of the great neglected rock records. Can anyone listen to the Raveonettes and not think of the Brothers Reid?

I've been trying to find the Luxuria record for years. Did it ever come out on CD? Howard Devoto had an incredibly funny cameo in 24 Hour Party People, if you haven't seen it...

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Jason Williams
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 06:51 am:   

Random thoughts from a guy who gave up on music years ago....

Growing up in Portland in the 80s, grunge was known as "local music" mostly. $6 would get you to see a triple bill of The U-Men, Screaming Trees and Nirvana, back when Nirvana couldn't afford to break as many instruments. Lucius is right, the great grunge bands never made it anywhere. The Trees looked like they might for a moment, but I guess not. Anyone remember Tad Doyle? Eight Way Santa rocked the boogie. I remember picking up Badmotorfinger when it came out, and being shocked because prior to then Chris Cornell couldn't sing to save his fucking ass. I saw him several times live at the old Pine Street Theater, and he was uniformly awful.

Around the time of Ten, Badmotorfinger and Nevermind, the world invaded the Pacific Northwest and labeled every band in it grunge. Never mind that most of them didn't sound anything alike, fuck it, it's all grunge baby. Anyone who puts Mudhoney, L7 and Tad in the same subgenre needs a kick in the peepee. So all these post-grunge bands started popping up (Clone Temple Pilots anyone?) and the whole thing just annoyed me. Seeing a line around the block for Nirvana annoyed me. Billy Corrigan annoys me. Tool annoys me, because for the life of me I can't see the appeal. Jeremy loves 'em (or maybe his wife loves 'em, I can't remember).

(remember, I said random thoughts)

I used to love MuchMusic back in the late 80's/early 90s, because they had these band spotlights where they played a bunch of videos and did interviews. Sometimes they'd pick cool bands, and they always had videos that had never aired in the states (I came of age when MTV started up, so videos were a big part of my youth). So it was cool to see a spotlight on XTC or Sisters of Mercy, and see these cool videos I hadn't ever seen anywhere.

Back to Tool... what do you mean you don't hear them on the radio? They're all over the fucking radio here in Portland.

Green Day. I can't form an opinion of their music, other than it's not my thing, but I'd like to beat up Billie Joe. He's part of the culture of deliberate ignorance, and it infuriates me. Every time I read an interview with the fuckwit, it makes me want to beat him to death with the body of Sid Vicious.

I love Tom Waits, but he gets a bit too deep in his navel from time to time. His new stuff is great, but for me it will never compare to Rain Dogs or Swordfishtrombone.

Led Zep is all that is right and holy in the world. Anyone who doesn't agree is wrong, and to them I say neener. Black Mountain Side motherfucker.

Rush. Um. I have nothing to say.

Chili Peppers. I think they should try and hire George Clinton again. John F. wasn't Slovak, much as he tried, and somewhere they changed from whackjob lunatics with a serious funk to Californication. Urm. Freaky Styley for me, thank you very much.

Post-2000 bands. I sorta gave up. I know there's magnificent bands out there, custom-tailored to my likes. I just don't have the time to go looking for them the way I did when I was 17. I spend all my time navigating the grottos of lit and movies. Where's Dave Kendall when I need him?

What does a guy who likes Dire Straights, XTC, Tom Petty, Frontline Assembly, Motown, Frank Sinatra and Zep listen to these days?

Ok, I'm done. Now off to deal with the casino spam.

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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 07:17 am:   

XTC, wow, what a great lost band. Has anyone heard any of the ten-CD self-released Andy Partridge Odds and Sods series he did recently?

Any of you Pac NWers remember a group called the Blackouts? They were early 80s and appeared on the Seattle Syndrome sampler before moving to Boston, making a cool record called Dead Souls Club, and expiring from fan apathy.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 07:22 am:   

Dave G:"...Guided By Voices (RIP), a band we have not yet begun to miss."

I got tickets to their final show in Chicago on New Years Eve. Drunken tears shall be shed.

Uncle Bob already has his first post-GBV solo record done, a double lp "American Superdream Wow." Title will probably change by release date (they always do) in summer of 2005.
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Jason Williams
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 07:51 am:   

Dave, is that the Fuzzy Warbles releases? Seen 'em listed, but haven't gotten around to picking them up yet.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 08:27 am:   

I guess that's the name of them. Since my town lacks even one decent record store, I haven't even seen an XTC release in a while.

GBV were the last outpost of lyrical, psycho-acid-folk inspiration we had. The paintsniffers' Beatles. The laments will be long and loud, believe me.
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Gamblin' MarcL
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 09:54 am:   

I really love the music they play in Casinos. Casinos is my favorite band. Online Gambling music makes me hot. Thanks so much for giving me a place to share my thoughts about le musique de les casineaux. The most awesome casino music place makes me soporific, so I'm signing up for your website! Thanks!
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 10:10 am:   

GBV---like the first couple of records. after that....enh. I don't like Pop. XTC...enh.


Bands I miss. Savage Republic, Spacemen 3, Monster Magnet ( i know, I know, but I miss the guys who made Spine of God), Slint, Three Mile Pilot, Thin White Rope....etc.

This weekend, going to see Laibach. Laibach!
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 10:20 am:   

Marc, stop. You may encourage it. :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 10:32 am:   

I saw Savage Republic. They were excellent. I know there's a SR spin-off band that put something out a couple of years ago, but the name escapes me at the moment.

I had plans to see Spacemen 3 and the Butthole Surfers on back to back nights in 1989, but the Bushies wouldn't let Pete Kember into the country! Sonic Boom has put on some of the oddest, most off-the-wall shows I've ever seen (bifurcated sets with 15-minute "song" portions and 50-minute drones of guitar feedback). When SB is "on," he's sensational, but he's too freaky and strung-out to put together a cohesive set. He's better on record. Conversely, Jason Pierce and Spiritualized can knock down walls when they want to onstage, but the band's records have been consistently watered-down, artsy and unaffecting.

Put those boys together again and maybe you could reclaim the best of both worlds! Am I the only one who still listens to "Dreamweapon"?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 10:49 am:   

Sonic Boom and Spiritualized are very cool live

Laibach! :-)
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Robert Devereux
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 10:54 am:   

I still devote a lot of time to hunting down music, but I don't find as much good stuff now. When I pick up the "indie" music magazines, it's the same bands in all of them. It's just like the mainstream mags, just with a slightly different selection of bands. Even the indie labels seem less willing to risk a band that doesn't fit a pre-defined genre. I find it harder to find the really unique bands.

Bands I miss - Damn the Machine (the only progressive metal band I've found that can actully write songs and isn't overproduced), Thought Industry (weirdest lyrics I've heard, although they are possibly still around), King Crimson (I know they're still around, but it's the 70's incarnation of them I miss).

My favorite current rock band is Porcupine Tree, but I'm guessing Lucius won't like them. Very lush production, almost to the limit of what I consider overproduction (like one song that has 47 vocal tracks). One of the guys from XTC has done string arrangements for them.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:19 am:   

Laibach is scary. I'm afraid if I see them in concert I'll wake up in a crowed railroad car with "LIFE IS LIFE!" blaring from loudspeakers.

(Actually it would be cool to see Laibach. They made Detroit last Friday and Chicago over the weekend)

How about Test Dept? Saw a used copy of "The Unacceptable Face of Freedom" a few weeks back and neglected to grab. Wanted it for the post-election drinking binge. Long gone.
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JV
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:22 am:   

Meanwhile, *this* is the greatest live rock performance of all time. It's not high-res, so you should be able to download it easily.

http://ifilm.wmod.llnwd.net/a65/o1/portal/2654003_200.asf

Truly, the best of all time. Sends chills down my spine. Check it out. I think Lucius will agree it's the best use of film of all time, especially music-related.

JeffV
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Bob K.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:40 am:   

How long has that guy been a parody of himself anyway?
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:52 am:   

Sweden has a lot of good metal bands.

I'll agree about King Crimson, XTC, and I think Monster Magnet had some good songs, but they became a little popy for me.

Anyone like the Residents? They're are pretty obscure in a number of ways.
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 11:57 am:   

That's funny Jeff. Have you heard Shattner's latest album? My friend had burned it and put it on when we were super hungover. It's full of his inane musings. It's actually pretty funny on first listen. Henry Rollins is on it too.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 12:10 pm:   

Any record with William Shatner and Henry Rollins on it deserves to be burned...
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Jason Williams
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 12:16 pm:   

I saw Laibach in San Francisc in 1997. They were excellent.

Saw Thought Industry with Primus about 9-10 years ago. Bought the album, used it as an alarm clock to wake up my roommate.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 01:40 pm:   

Jeff, for some reason i can't open that link.

Shattner...

Rollins...

Black Trek!
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ben peek
Posted on Monday, November 15, 2004 - 03:58 pm:   

i have to say, i love the new shatner album, HAS BEEN. i mean, i really do. i don't know why. it's just catchy and strange and gives you the feeling that shatner is being honest about himself, which translates to, still fucked up in my seventies.

stephenb: we've recently gotten mtv in australia (last six or so years) and man, if there's anything to send you screaming away about the condition of music now, that'd be that. still, you can still catch rage at two in the morning on a saturday, which is usually watchable.

you know, i don't mind chris cornell, though i didn't much like soundgarden. i do like audioslave, despite the stupidity of their lyrics and the fact that they're corporate. but then i liked rage against the machine, too.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 09:14 am:   

Since self-aware and self-deprecating are the new awesome and godlike, it appears Shatner is well on his way to being the David Bowie of the William Hung generation.
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ben peek
Posted on Tuesday, November 16, 2004 - 04:14 pm:   

i dunno, dave g, i think that may be unfair. have you heard the album? it strikes me that shatner and ben folds have actually bought some of their ability and talent to the album. (if that is to your taste or not is a different thing.) and you know, while it makes me uncomfortable to sit here and type that shatner bought ability and talent to *any*thing, i'm doing it anyhow because i reckon the album is just fantastic.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 06:38 am:   

Yes, Ben you're probably right to tweak me on that. I think it was the result of a bad day at the office. I shouldn't be so rough on Shatner. After all, I own a copy of his immortal "Mr. Tambourine Man." His 70s record juxtaposing Shakespeare readings with then-current pop hits is side-splittingly funny. The guy is good fun. I should be open to the possibility that there are moments of goodness on the new one. I just see red when people start talking up kitsch as quality, a phenomenon that happens all too frequently. The new Captain Kirk might be a good laugh. No slight intended against Ben Folds.

Wow. I just realized. We're having a William Shatner discussion on a music thread. Weird.
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ben peek
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 01:56 pm:   

i know i know. i'm just going to stop. i have nothing else to say about shatner, anyhow, which is kinda good.
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MarcL
Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2004 - 10:34 pm:   

I heard a fair bit of HAS BEEN. Call me crazy, but I found it weirdly moving, musically exciting, and some of it downright funny. Also, Shatner's commentary (at least on the website for the album) is amusing and sincere.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, November 18, 2004 - 06:27 am:   

Jeez, could I be....wrong?...

Damn.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 10:16 am:   

Great show. Laibach at Sabala's in Portland. Apocalyptic affirmative industrial music with a sense of humor and a killer presentation.

Also, in Seattle, heard a great Portland band, the Helio Sequence. Two guys, drums and guitar, and their samples and loops. Most excellent. Haven't heard their third album, but the first two are pretty damn cool.

Also heard Arcade Fire. Thanks, Paul. They're a cool band.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, November 19, 2004 - 12:29 pm:   

Just heard that the sublime woman singer from Denali is debuting her new band Bellalea, here at the Black Cat in December. Sign me up!
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 05:06 pm:   

The Canadian rock band, The Tragically Hip, were just put in the Canadian music hall of fame. I like them and think they're a good Canadian band forsure. I saw them live awhile ago and thought they put on a good show, although it's not very flashy or showy rock n roll.
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T Andrews
Posted on Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 06:54 pm:   

Stephen, Stephen, Stephen...you've got to be kidding. They wrote a couple of rockin' tunes a century ago, and then they turned into R.E.M. IMO, of course. ;)
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, November 24, 2004 - 05:41 am:   

Nope, I like them. I wouldn't say they are one of my all time favorites or anything, but I like them. Check out there albums Road Apples and Up to Here. Pretty good.

And please, aren't you the one who was recomending Danko Jones? That's funny that you would diss the Hip. I bet you like Our Lady Peace and bands like that too.:-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 12:23 pm:   

Will one of you LA types on the list please confirm the gossip item I saw that the city closed Sunset Strip today to announce a Motley Crue reunion?

Oh, and one other question: are you folks nuts?
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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 04:40 am:   

Kind of late, but to bad about Dimebag. What a crazy bastard.
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Gregg
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 03:11 pm:   

Crazy bastard? Who, Dime, or the guy who killed him?

I think Dime's death is going to have a real chilling influence on musicians' willingness to interact with their fans. Also, security is going to get tight at rock shows now, real tight, and there are already too many bouncers who get off on roughing up concertgoers who fail to "follow instructions". It's a bad scene no matter how you look at it.
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StephenB
Posted on Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 04:59 pm:   

The guy who shot up the place and killed dimebag, of course.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 12:44 pm:   

I'm in the process of listening to The Great Destroyer, the new disc by Low, the great midwestern slowcore band that, on this release (their first on Sub Pop) actually rock out just a little bit.

Anyone else think that these guys are among the very most underrated bands of this benighted decade? (Granted, metal junkies are advised to stay away...) I can hardly think of an underground band these past ten years that has assembled such an interesting and moving body of work.

This is going to be the Big Star of our time.
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Duane
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 01:27 pm:   

I saw Low in the late 90s opening for Come and Bettie Sieveert. They didn't do much for me and I've quickly sold every disc of theirs I've bought.

The underground ain't what it used to be.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 01:55 pm:   

I agree the underground ain't what it used to be. Personally, I can't wait for the original Gang of Four line-up to return and start gigging again. I think they will open a lot of eyes.

Low may not have enough edge for some folks, but I find their melodic melancholy kind of affecting. Don't be surprised if these records sound fresher in 5, 10 years' time than almost all of that Williamsburg nu-rock everybody hypes.

About halfway through Mogwai's Government Commissions BBC Sessions disc, also a winner.
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T Andrews
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 02:30 pm:   

I just heard 'Grady''s first cd: Y.U. So Shady? My spousal unit saw them live last week.
They are a 3-piece. Gordie Johnson of Big Sugar fame and Chris Layton and Ben Richardson. Impressive trio, eh?
I love their sound. It's kinda like rock-a-billy meets heavy metal. Sweet sweet stuff.
(StephenB, don't argue with me, man!!:-))
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 05:02 pm:   

T: I haven't even heard Grady, so no argument.

Rock albums this year that should be good:

I'm looking forward to System of a Down's Mezmerize, which is comming out this may. Then later this year, they'll have another album called Hypnotize.

Queen's of the Stone Age have a new album comming at the end of the month.

Violent Femmes just had a new album out recently I think. I like the Femmes, and I'd consider them folk rock. Anyone heard their latest album?

NIN's next album, With Teeth's out in early may.

Tool should have a new album this year, which will probably be great.

Deftones will have an album out in June.

Zack De La Rocha is supposed to have something out at the end of the year. Does anyone know who he's working with?

Portishead should have an album out at the end of the year. It's been awhile....

Mudvayne and The Chille Peppers also have albums out this year.

That's probably not all.

Massive Attack has an album this year too. I don't know if I;d call them rock, they're more electronica, but I still like them. Even if I don't really like electronic music in general.

This should be a good year for rock.


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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 05:15 pm:   

I should add that I'm not convinced all the albums I've listed will be good. We'll see what Trent does. The Peppers may be too top 40 orientated, but they also may make a good album, we'll see.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 06:45 am:   

It's about time for Portishead. I hope they tour again.
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New Thread Girl
Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 08:12 am:   

New Thread Below
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JH
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 08:07 pm:   

All of you who said tool was a shitty band and didnt even make music are obviously narrow-minded idiots. What part of Tool is against rock and roll? Have you heard the shit people call rock and roll these days? A bunch of whiney assholes like linkin park or fall out boy. What the fuck kind of bands are those? And you bitch about Tool sucking? Im going to assume that you are like everyone else and doesn't give music a chance if they dont like it their first time. And don't tell me you've heard them so much on the radio because likely it was the song "Schism". That's one song dumbass, every tool song has its own distinction and difference so you aren't gonna know what tool really is unless you listen to all of their songs. And last i checked Tool isn't very popular compared to a lot of shitty rap bands and pussy "punkers" that wear eye-liner to make themselves look dark; really it just makes them look gay. Rush is one of the greatest bands in the history of music; like tool will be rush's phenomenal music is forgotten by most. People listen to the singer and automatically think the band sucks. Rock and Roll is about change. Tool is the fastest evolving group of musicians i have ever seen. In 14 years they accomplished more than any band could in 100. They have gone from their grungey half album "Opiate" to one of the most creative if not the most creative and phenomenal album in history "Lateralus." They sound like a new band on every album.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2005 - 08:32 pm:   

I bet you got Tool jizz up your ass, JH. Probably so much of it, it plugs up your ears. Have a merry Tool Xmas.
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StephenB
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 07:55 am:   

Tool sucks.:-)
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Robert
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 08:35 am:   

Tool sounds like a new band on every album? That's news to me, and I have all their albums. I'm not convinced emulating Lark's Tongue in Aspic is evolution either.

If you really want fast evolving musicians, check out anything with Mike Patton or Ulver. The Gathering had fast evolution too (from death metal, to starting the "woman singing metal" trend Evanescence plays, to dream pop).
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 09:14 am:   

What do you think of opeth, Robert? Have you heard them? They're too, like poppy, prog or something for me, at least their new stuff.

Stephen.... ;)
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Robert
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 09:59 am:   

I enjoy Opeth, but I wish they would evolve. Except for Damnation (which put me to sleep), they've been releasing the same album again and again. The changes from My Arms Your Hearse to Ghost Reveries are so miniscule. I like their new one, but I feel like I could just keep one Opeth album and listen to that, and I wouldn't miss the others. I'm just not sure which one I'd keep. Maybe a compilation of songs from each album.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 10:24 am:   

I've been working at the airport bar, it's like Christmas in a submarine.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 10:40 am:   

Well, I like Ephel Duath and Baroness and several others considerably more. Opeth just seems okay. All i've heard, though, is Ghost Reveries.

Nice line, R. I might steal it. :-)
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Robert
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 10:52 am:   

I like the Baroness EP a lot more than Ghost Reveries (I prefer Blackwater Park for Opeth albums). I heard one song by Intronaut, and it reminded me of Baroness.

I wasn't really into Ephel Duath, but I haven't heard their new one yet. Have you listened to Maudlin of the Well, or Kayo Dot? They're the same band, just different names. Very weird somewhat metal stuff.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, December 16, 2005 - 11:04 am:   

No, I haven't heard Mauldin or Kayo Dot, and I'll look out for them and intronaut. Don't think I'll get any more Opeth, though. Bought an album by the Damascus Steel, which sounded promising in reviews, but haven't listened to it yet.
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R.Wilder
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 09:47 am:   

Lucius: You'd be stealing from David Berman. It's from "Gettin' Back Into Gettin' Back Into You" from the new Silver Jews lp "Tanglewood Numbers." It's my current favorite on the turntable.
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, December 17, 2005 - 10:26 am:   

Oops.

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