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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 07:50 pm:   

Lucius said,

"You know that's becoming the rule. In the early 90s, watching Seahawks football, watching them play the worst teams in the league, I saw some of the worst football ever. Now I see it every week. Today I saw parts of Oakland-Buffalo, Seahawks-Bucs, Miami-Cinci, and they all were the equal of the those 90s games. Back to back turnovers, three and outs...Apparently the Dallas-Browns game was the same. And the Chicago game. The league has deteriorated to the point that it;s like the bad football of a decade ago."

The other thread was getting too long...so let me ask here, why do you think this is happening? Is it cyclic? More of the results of free agency run wild?

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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2004 - 08:04 pm:   

I think it;s a combination of free agency, expansion, and poor ownership. TV and merchandising makes it profitable for the owners not be competitive, the talent is spread too thin, and free agency has destroyed continuity. There are no great teams anymore because they can;t keep their players. Don't give me the Patriots. The Niners and the Cowboys of the 90s would have torn them apart. I like having great teams, even if they're ones I hate -- their presence creates great football.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 06:37 am:   

Bungles-Fins looked like a high school game. Announcers love to talk about dominant defenses, but the fact is, both of those offenses made the defenses look good. Carson Palmer was spraying it all over the field. The Fins are a disaster w/o Ricky Williams. They have no Plan B.

I agree with Lucius. Free agency is b.s. How can you keep a team together when a third of your roster turns over every season?

Teams are driven by the need to overpay for big-name free agents which drives the expectation of winning right away, which drives the need to sign more big-name free agents. Beltway Danny Snyder is the most egregious example, but everyone does it.

Also, overexpansion is a problem. Why is there ANY professional sports team in the state of Arizona?
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 06:41 am:   

The Cowboys might have added several more SuperBowl wins in the nineties if it wasn't for the salary cap. The Niners or Packers too for that matter.

Way too many games are ugly now. I remember a few years ago, the Cowboys beat the Redskins 9-6 on Monday Night in one of the worst games I've ever subjected myself to. It was so awful, they began showing highlights of both teams from past Monday Night games.

I'm just thankful this week that I didn't catch that ESPN game, or Jacksonville's thrilling 9-7 victory over Denver.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 06:56 am:   

The Niners didn't obey the salary cap! So were were their SBs?

The Cowboys-Skins game (2000, I think it was), covered by Michaels/Madden/Miller, was the only game I've ever seen in which the announcers openly and brutally mocked the caliber of play on the field. It was so bad, they should have a name for it (The Boner Bowl? The Irony Bowl?). If that wasn't an all-time low for the league, I would love to hear other nominations.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 08:11 am:   

Actually, the first game i saw where the announcers made fun of the game was Seattle-NE in the early 90s. Don Criqui and Chris Collinsworth told it like it was and were punished by NBC for doing so. That game lives in my memory. I recall one sequence were Seattle fumbled on their own 23; two plat later the New England QB threw an interception. Two straight holding penalties pinnned Seattle deep in their own territory. They punted, New England fumbled the punt, the Seattle QB threw an interception.. I thought it was the worst game I'd ever seen. Now that scenario is commonplace.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 08:34 am:   

I suppose some of the replacement games might have been worse, but I don't recall watching any...
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 09:00 am:   

I didn't watch replacement games either...Maybe they were funnier...
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Deborah
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 09:51 am:   

Nah, I never saw any replacement games (my daddy didn't raise no scabs). The thing is, the college game is still as good as ever and in some cases, even better. Seems like I've seen some really amazing athletes and really good games (well-coached, well executed) in the past decade.

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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 10:05 am:   

You see more amazing athletes in the pros, but fewer and fewer good teams. The college game is getting bettter--the pro is becoming a bore,

Where's Minz? I want hear him in Packer apologist mode.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:00 am:   

Could you say that professional football and basketball are locked in similar death spirals: more and better athletes bidding up a more and more outrageous free agent market that requires teams to "showcase" the stars passing through them, thus sacrificing team play and continuity to the cult of celebrity and jersey-marketing?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:50 am:   

Yup....plus the fabric of society is deteriorating. :-)
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Deborah
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 11:53 am:   

Yeah, but who cares about society's fabric...we're talking about the important stuff...good football and how to get it back or keep it or whatever...what time's that game?

:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 12:00 pm:   

6 pm....I don't think it can be gotten back. It;s just like with movies, they'll never get back to where they were.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 01:47 pm:   

Jeez, what a gloomy Gus.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 20, 2004 - 02:01 pm:   

Yeah, but it's true....
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barth
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 09:54 am:   

yeah, three key injuries and the vikings turn from a 5-touchdown team into a highschool unit. ugly ugly ugly.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:04 am:   

I thought they played pretty well despite everything...Without that "Touchdown" by TO, it;s another game.
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:22 am:   

Have I mentioned lately that I HATE the Eagles?

Just checking.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:36 am:   

You ain't alone!!!!
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Alex
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 02:11 pm:   

I got suckered into playing this fantasy league at work, and now all of my former allegiances are curdled by the crushing imperative to humiliate my coworkers. I'm confused.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 04:54 pm:   

Fantasy football, Alex! That's a blight on the spirit!!!!! For shame!
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Alex
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 10:26 pm:   

I couldn't help it...everyone else in the office was doing it...they called me a weenie...

help
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 21, 2004 - 11:02 pm:   

Fantasy football pollutes sporting affections. You'll never be able to watch football pure again. It becomes an obsession and turns the game into a kind of pitiful reality show. Yuppies love it.

You're a weenie. :-)

That's all the help I can give.
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 06:34 am:   

I'm tainted by fantasy football too, Alex

I often find myself thinking - don't let 'em score, guys. But if you do, just make sure it's Holt that catches the pass.

It's a sickness.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 06:41 am:   

Et tu, Josh? :-)

I;ve resisted all efforts to enlist me. Way I figure, if I need something to pique my interest, I'll just lay a bet.
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Minz
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 07:21 am:   

I'm with Lucius. As soon as the Packers brought in Ron Wolf and Mike Holmgren, I stopped playing Fantasy Football, becuase it divided loyalties too much. (Actually, I did FF for Holmgren's first year, and that's when I discovered the anguish of which you speak, Alex. Nothing worse than hoping Barry Sanders would have a huge day but that the Lions would lose . . . )

And just because the Packers have the best record in the league since the inception of the salary cap, along with the most playoff appearances, doesn't make it "apologist".

And while the cap and free agency has obviously taken a toll on the league, this system treats the players much more fairly. And there is a much greater chance that someone's team will turn it around and play in the Super Bowl. As someone who saw his team wallow in mediocrity for 23 years, I can appreciate a system that literally gives anyone a chance to turn it around in a two-three year window. Is there poorer overall play as a result? Maybe. Certainly among the marquis teams, but there are more competitive games top to bottom than there used to be.

And early season is usually ugly. Even back in the day, when my beloved Packers were racking up five championships in seven years, early season games were often ugly affairs.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 07:30 am:   

In a sense, isn't it owners playing "fantasy football" (ie, Danny Snyder, 2000) that is responsible in large part for the deterioration in play?
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 07:54 am:   

The point is, Packer Apologist Minz, the quality of the game is gone. Do you believe that any of these teams could compete with the Cowboys, the Niners, or even the Packers of the early Nineties? I don't. There are no complete teams in the league. We see these ugly games throughout the season, we even see them in the play-offs. I prefer good football to parity. Truthfully, there were only one or two games worth watching last weekend. More competive games? Not by my terms. Unless you consider last weeked's Cincy-Miami game competitive. It was close, but hardly competitive.
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PAM
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 08:13 am:   

I am the sad clown, filling the role for which I've been cast . . .
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 08:14 am:   

If neither team is able to compete, does that make a game "competitive"?

In a sense, it's like baseball, where a handful of good pitchers are spread across a huge number of teams and the result is sloppy, high-scoring contests.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 09:20 am:   

Good on you, PAM. :-)

Dave: Yup.
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PAM
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2004 - 09:53 am:   

I'd have to agree about enjoying the college game more than the pro game, and that was not the case twenty years ago.
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barth
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 01:29 pm:   

well that killed the NFL thread. nice goin! ;)
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 01:43 pm:   

Not killed, just on hiatus...
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 02:01 pm:   

Texans-Chiefs this week ought to be fodder for some "Bad NFL" discussions, don't you think?
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, September 24, 2004 - 02:09 pm:   

Oh, yeah...and Green Bay-Indy. :-)
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 06:00 am:   

Wow, a thriller in Atlanta. Cardinals 3, Falcons 6???
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 06:30 am:   

Yeah, that Braves-Diamondbacks game was really something...What? Falcons-Cardinals?

Weird score, but I'll bet it was really majestic the way America's #1 shoe salesman and part-time QB Mike Vick hung a big six on the awe-inspiring Cards defense! What a sensation!

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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 07:40 am:   

I'd say the first half of Green Bay-Indy was as lame defense as I;ve seen in a while. My idea of good football isn't receivers running open by ten yards and Manning opening the game by throwing 21 straight passes or whatever it was....
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 08:19 am:   

And to listen to the announcers heave breathy sighs, we were watching a classic on a par with the writing of the Iliad. I agree; one does want to see a little balance from a team, ie, the ability to run block, tackle, etc.

I'm guessing Atlanta-Arizona was the flipside -- two semi-inept offenses being brutalized. The fact that the league's wonder boy was one of the players flailing around does not bode well.
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barth
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 08:34 am:   

a grueling struggle of trench warfare, that game! if GB had ground it out a bit more, and played their own game by running green instead of asking old man Favre to party like it was 1995, the pack might have actually pulled it off.

indy's D isn't worthy of tony dungee, but that rookie stripping the ball from walker sure was reminiscent of TB (and the vikes) back in the day.

bad NFL all around, yes. but all i know is that MY team beat chicago in their own house.... :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 09:22 am:   

"...on a par with writing the Iliad..."

Good One.

"Only Brett Farve could hit a reciever as wide open as that. That's why he's Brett Favre."


Barth,

well, my team sucked shit, and I'm not happy.
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:00 am:   

You're right, Dave. Those guys made it sound like one for the ages. Might have been more interesting if either one of the teams fielded a cornerback.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:07 am:   

...Or a pass rush...
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:20 am:   

It was the NFL equivalent of the home-run derby. Or the slam-dunk contest.

Hey! I got a "good one" from Lucius! I'm on the way up! :-)
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barth
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:33 am:   

even my wife, at the end of the first quarter, said, "is this arena football?"
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:50 am:   

What was your answer? :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 11:07 am:   

I think I heard Troy Aikman make a similar observation about the similarities to the Arena League. The principal diff: snazzier unis in the AFL.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 11:09 am:   

Yeah, but there are some butt ugly ones too.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 11:14 am:   

And that Iowa Barnstormers helmet with the decal of the goggles on it. Definitely wack. But none of their unis are as bad as the Broncos'.
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~b.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 11:40 am:   

-What was your answer?-

i told her favre would get devoured in arena league.

sorry bout yer team sucking shit and all.

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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:00 pm:   

Well, the injuries have killed us. 7 starters including the heart of the D. :-(
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:30 pm:   

Hopefully tonight won't be a horrible game, although it's a distinct possibility. Still, I'm pumped. It doesn't matter if both teams suck, I'm always up for Cowboys vs. Redskins. Here's hoping the Boys make it 13 out of 14.

And here's hoping a running back *cough, cough - Rashard Lee - cough, cough* emerges from the pack. Otherwise, Vinny's arm is gonna fall off.
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Alex
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   

Allegiance conflict update:

The Lions came hard back to earth. My fantasy team kicked ass. I hate myself.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:43 pm:   

You should.

But Alex, next year, the playoffs. Two years from now, serious contender.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 12:45 pm:   

Josh, Rashard has looked pretty good. I don't look for much tonight, defensive struggle, but I think the Boys will prevail.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 01:45 pm:   

No offense directed in particular toward Clinton Portis, but it would be mighty entertaining to see another turnover-fest. It's laffs aplenty when these "return of the King" types in DC who are looking to King Joe to bring them back to glory have to watch their team floundering in bonehead plays! :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 09:44 pm:   

Boy, if he takes many more hits like he took tonight, Brunell's gonna be dead. Joe's OL is a sieve.

21-18 Boys....
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John Picacio
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 09:57 pm:   

Yeah, that shot from Dixon on the blitz on Brunell was juicy. I think the technical term for that is "slobberknocker".

I love the Tuna.
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Deborah
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:07 pm:   

Huh. Maybe I shoulda watched. I've just seen too much "hot potato" passing for football in the NFL lately. And lacking a fantasy league stake, I'm getting jaded.
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-b.
Posted on Monday, September 27, 2004 - 10:09 pm:   

that dixon hit was perfect. tweety birds for brunell.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 05:45 am:   

Slobberknocker is right, John. Tuna good.

Deborah, it was a pretty good game. Yer boy Bryant made a spectacular catch, though the receiving star was Rob Gardner, who made several. The game turned on a thirty yard tailback pass for a TD from Richie Anderson to Terry Glenn. Time ran out on the Skins afrer they complete a 47 yard pass to Gardner down to the Cowboy 20.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 06:27 am:   

That ending was sweet. I was laughing my ass off.

None of the "Return of the King" Krewe would ever dare imply that Gibbs' 11-year hiatus put him out of touch with the game, but what cost the Skins the win? A bad use of instant replay, which Gibbsie never had to deal with during his salad days. It's not as simple as rounding up the old gang one mo' time, my friends.
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 06:33 am:   

"That ending was sweet. I was laughing my ass off."

Me too. A quick breath of Redskin hope, quickly tainted by the understanding that he...didn't...get...out...of...bounds!?!?

Priceless.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 07:09 am:   

To tell ya the truth, I was breathing a sigh of relief.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 07:25 am:   

"Joe? Joe? Don? What's all this here 'instantaneous replay' stuff all about? You ever seen this? How does it work again?..."

Sometimes life is sweet.
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 07:47 am:   

Not to be an apologist, for there was horrendous defensive play in the GB-Indy game, but there are three things I must need say:
1) What the hell was Sherman & Slowik smoking in deciding to stick with their base defense until the second half?!?!?!?!? Granted, with Indy's no-huddle offense, it'd been tough to adjust personnel on the fly during the first drive. But how about starting in the nickle on the second drive? Or the third drive? Or the fourth friggin drive??? They had 3 wide receivers in the game throughout, and we're expecting a linebacker to stay with one of them? Some of the worst defensive coaching I've seen this side of High School football. It is telling that they only scored ten in the second half when we had the nickle & dime packages playing (Yes, they were looking to run more and eat up clock, but so what. Anything's better than leaving wide receivers wide open twenty+ yards downfield--I would've been thrilled if Indy had tried running more in the first half.)
2) While the announcers (actually, mostly just Collinsworth) made themselves look like idiots, it was particularly telling they didn't catch the stupid coaching decision sooner, though they did get there by the fourth drive. But what really stuck in my craw is that they didn't get into all the injuries to our defensive backs (except to list them with all seven key contributors who were out). They talked about Grady Jackson & James Lee (our two nosetackles) both being out. But we were missing two of our top four corners, and a third one (Hawthorne) got knocked out with a mild concussion (though he did return to the game). (And while this relates to #1, still, we _had_ to put the other corner out there. I know Joey Thomas is a rookie, but he's got to have a better chance of covering a wide receiver than one of our linebackers. )
3) Barth is right, we should've stuck with the run game more, just to give our d a break.

All said and done, it's an AFC loss. If we take care of the Gints this week, and some of the guys come back in the next couple of weeks (Jackson, Carroll and Lee are all expected back in the next couple of weeks), we'll be okay. I don't know what's up with McKenzie, but I hope the Packers hang onto him for the rest of the season, so that he knows he has to perform to entice a team to make the Packers a good enough offer so they have to trade him.
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barth
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 07:51 am:   

(slightly off-topic, but speaking of NFL as horror(!?), i hear through the grapevine that our friend josh has a nifty football story due out momentarily.)

now back to redskin bashing. "what cost the Skins the win? A bad use of instant replay." agreed, david g. - gibbs is obviously paying the price for selling his mortal soul to snyder.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 08:00 am:   

A banged-up Pack will be a good test for the Giants, who I think don't really know yet whether they are good or not, and need to test themselves. It will be interesting to see how Kurt Warner does against that quality defensive coaching.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 08:06 am:   

McKenzie's rumored to be traded to NO.

It only took you two days to speak after this one. I'm impressed. :-)

"It's only a AFC loss." Yeah, but as a measuring stick, it does not bode well.

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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 08:09 am:   

oh, yeah! One more thing. How much of the Packs offensive stratgey do think can be attributed to Brett Favre;s desire to engage in a mano a mano with Manning. I'd say, quite a lot.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 08:11 am:   

Dave, the name of this thread is Bad NFL games. The Giants are bad. Compared to what. might be the appropriate response. It doesn't matter. In existential terms, they suck.
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 09:12 am:   

Mckenzie's been rumored to go to NO since June. The latest is that they've added a fourth round pick to the mix, along with the original second-rounder. The Pack has said first-rounder plus another pick or player. And given the play of the D, I imagine they'll hold to that, and try and get something for him in the offseason. (And there's supposedly three possible suitors at the moment, though only NO is known.) We'll see...

I have a feeling the Packers are going to crush the Giants. I'm practically begging my NYC officemates to bet with me.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:43 am:   

If 2-1 is bad, I'll take it. Keep on raggin', you guys. You're good luck. :-)
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:46 am:   

Hey Barth, that's the unholy product of a childhood in West Texas mixed with a healthy fear of "The Great Old Ones." I never had a chance.

As for the McKenzie rumors - any chance he'll end up in Dallas now? Jones says it's not gonna happen, but last night they lost Pete Hunter, most likely for the season. We were left with our rookie seventh round draft pick in his place, with a benchload of lesser rookies behind him. To his credit, Jaques Reeves (the aforementioned seventh round pick) played pretty well, but I can't imagine Parcells is very comfortable with the whole situation.

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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 10:55 am:   

Look who you've beaten, Dave. The Skins and a injury decimated Browns team.
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:10 am:   

Yes, but the important point -- and I do have one -- is that last year's Giants would have lost to those teams. Better to win unimpressively than to lose depressingly. So progress is being made. That's why I would accept a win over an injury-decimated Pack and take it right to the bank.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:12 am:   

8-8, like everyone else in the league. Yawn.
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:33 am:   

But that's second to the Lions, whose two wins have come against Chicago and Houston.
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:35 am:   

Dave, nothin' personal, but it ain't gonna happen. Packers are going to absolutely blow out the Giants. (And no, I don't make these kind of claims every week. But after losing a couple, I think they're ready to hurt someone. Just my less-than-humble opinion.)
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 11:42 am:   

Didn't Chicago beat Green Bay...in Green Bay?
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 12:23 pm:   

:-)

Hey, the Pack may win, but if the Jints stay competitive, I'll be encouraged.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 12:27 pm:   

You'd be encouraged by a nuclear war! Hey, look! It'll be great for the cockroaches!

:-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 01:00 pm:   

Hey, it's my coping mechanism. Leave me alone. Someday, when Joe Pisarcik and Larry Csonka fumble away a victory for YOUR team with :05 on the clock, Lucius, maybe you'll understand. :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, September 28, 2004 - 01:04 pm:   

Maybe..... :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 01:35 pm:   

Weird. Cleveland wins. Washington must be horrible. Where's the magic Gibb's touch?

And NY waltzes into GB and wins. Favre was hurt, but...I don't know.

The Jags lost, but they look good. They're coming.
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Dave G.
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 03:22 pm:   

"Dave, nothin' personal, but it ain't gonna happen. Packers are going to absolutely blow out the Giants. (And no, I don't make these kind of claims every week. But after losing a couple, I think they're ready to hurt someone. Just my less-than-humble opinion.)"

:-)

Boy, you could really lose your shirt this season betting with the experts.

THEORY: Joe Gibbs is gonna bring back the magic to DC with the help of his rock-solid running game.
FACT: Joe-Bob has bungled away games the last two Sundays with bad time-out/challenge management and Clinton Portis is Tiki Mark Two

THEORY: The Giants' house is in disarray, and Tom Coughlin's Nazi discipline is going to push things over the edge. Kurt Warner is washed up and Tiki can't hang onto the ball. A train wreck.
FACT: 3-1. Warner has thrown just one pick and Barber hasn't fumbled. 186 yards against the Pack and 125 against the Eagles. Kurt Warner early season pick for Comeback Player of the Year.

I pray the experts don't start praising my Jints! Keep that disrespect coming; it's like money in the bank, y'all! :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 03:33 pm:   

8-8, Dave. Like all the rest of the league. Barber's saving up his fumbles for when they really count, and Warner may work against mediocre teams lilke a Farveless GB, Cleveland, et al...but they'll lose their share. You're celebrating way too early.

I didn't see the Browns game. But what you say about Gibbs must be true,
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 05:42 pm:   

mention should be made of the Great Emmit Snith, who had 127 yards rushing and threw a TD pass.... :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:28 am:   

Lucius, this is not celebrating, just correcting the factual record. And as an advocate of aggressive defense, you should admit that Favreless GB's don't just happen; they're made by big defensive hits. (Where did William Joseph learn to hit like that? The U.!)

I'll admit you may be right about the final outcome (maybe not). The Giants are by no means a SB team yet. We all know that. I just find it endlessly amusing that GB was an elimination pool lock at 12:00 and mediocre by 5:00. Ah, those experts!

I like our chances against the Cowboys.

I may have been too hard on Joe. What happened was Rod Gardner fumbled away the last chance the Skins had to win late in the fourth quarter. It was a very questionable call, and could have been successfully challenged, but Gibbs had used up all three time-outs earlier in the half. The loss may not have been his fault, but some of the local sports pundits sure laid it at his feet.

If you lived here in DC, you would have the fun of watching the Joe Gibbs sniping starting to bubble under the surface already. The stages are familiar: euphoria, optimism, shock, disillusion, resignation, resentment, termination. We saw it with Norv. We saw it with Spurrier. And now, we're seeing it with Joe. It's gonna be a hell of a season.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:54 am:   

Yo, Dave...As you know I;m not a Favrehead, not a Packer admirer.. This, Minz to the contrary, is not a real good team. They;re 6-6 at Lambeau in their last twelve. They were never an "elimination pool lock" with me. The Giant's rise to the 3-1 is a tribute to th topic of this thread, not to their greatness. Warner's renaissance is a surprise, but the Cowboys present a significantly more imposing defensive problem than did the Pack.


You didn't see it with Schottenheimer? :-)
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:55 am:   

The Skins will be okay - Danny Boy will throw some more money at the problem next year. That'll do the trick. ;)

Is it possible that Portis isn't the great running back we all imagined he was, that he was in fact just a product of that great Denver RB environment? Or is he just having a rough spell.

And are the Jints really good, or is Green Bay a middle of the pack team this year? I'm thinking the latter. Jints haven't beaten a really good team, and lest you think I'm just picking on the boys from NY, neither has Dallas.

Next week should be fun.
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:58 am:   

Ahh, I see my Packer question crossposted with Lucius' answer. Reading my thoughts again?
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Minz
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:21 am:   

First and foremost, props to the Gints, Dave. I had expected better from the Pack, and had no clue the Gints were playing such good d--and that was good d (not great, but they seem to be working their way in that direction). The only Gints game I saw was the Philly one, and based on that, I expected more from the Pack.

And even with Favre, it would've been tough to win with the way our run d was stinkin up the joint. Dear Santa: Please bring my present early this year: a healthy Grady Jackson. Then maybe we can claw our way into the middle of the pack...
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Minz
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:24 am:   

And beyond the Bad NFL theory, whose proof we hold to be self-evident, props to Lucius for his Favre theory: if we're looking for proof he's dumber than a bag of hammers, we need look no further than yesterday's game. His best play of the day came after he was knocked silly--in fact, he doesn't even remember the play. (Of course, I'll take a QB who can toss a TD even when he doesn't know his own name--my kind of mensch. And this ain't exactly rocket science.)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:25 am:   

Yup. Yer an open book. :-)

Next week WILL be fun!

Portis is good. I'm mean, Griffin's not tearing up the league. But the Skin's OL is way bad.

Nice football story....
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John Klima
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:29 am:   

I quote myself: "NYG (hopefully the O-line can stop the G-men D, if not...:-(), TEN (some sort of combo of Indy & NYG :-(:-(), DET (on a hot streak, hoping our D comes together better by then :-(),"

<sigh> I knew that Giants D was going to give us problems. I was excited at one point that I was going to get to see three GB games: Indy, G-men, and Tenn; but now, not so much.

It felt like 1988 all over again. :-)

JK
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:31 am:   

Oh, it was Laverneous [sp?] Coles, not Rod Gardner. My bad.

I left Schottenheimer out of my Redskins Parade of Shame because he was actually WINNING at the time he was fired. He just plain lost a beauty contest with Spurrier for Beltway Danny's $$$. I didn't include Terry Robiskie because noone expected him to succeed.

Guys, the Giants will never beat a "really good team" this season for the simple reason that, as soon as the Giants beat them, the experts get amnesia and start redefining the opponent as a "mediocre" team. I knew my Jesuit training would come in handy someday, but not as a football analyst...:-) As I said, bring on the disrespect; we can't get enough...

The one noticeable difference with the Giants this season is that, in years past, even quality Giants teams almost always FOUND A WAY TO LOSE in the fourth quarter. We saw it against SF in 2002. We saw it against Dallas on MNF last year. This year, they are stronger in the fourth and are finishing out games. It can't be a coincidence that this comes with the advent of a disciplinarian coach.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:33 am:   

"I'll take a QB who can toss a TD even when he doesn't know his own name...."

How many TD's has Farve thrown when he did know his name? :-)

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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:39 am:   

The GIants won't beat a good team for a very simple--there aren;t very many of them. That;s the point. It doesn't take Jesuit training to see that. I;ve never said the Pack was good -- in fact all along I've said they were in decline.


Coughlin has a short shelf life,
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:59 am:   

JK, I think you can handle Tenn. They lost to San Diego, for God;s sake!

Once more, how about that Emmit!
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John Klima
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 08:02 am:   

Yeah, can't wait to watch a Volek/Pederson match up. Won't that be exciting? At least it would feature Green vs. Brown...LOL, didn't realize til I typed that about the RBs having colors for last names.

And you said we'd handle the Gints! I think you're cursing us on purpose! :-)

JK
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 08:15 am:   

Well, I think Minz is the curse. He's so high on the pack, it smacks of hubris. :-)

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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 08:31 am:   

Lucius, who do you consider the quality teams?

From what I've seen so far, it's the Eagles and the Pats and Everybody Else. In the second group, I would put Indy at the top of the second tier, with Jax, the Jets and Seattle trailing.

In the "Can You Believe It?" category, can you believe the Falcons are 4-0? How the heck did that happen? However, Vick stubs his toe and the Birds are out of it.

My last word on the Giants. A quick glance at the NFC shows a conference virtually devoid of tough, dominant contenders. If the Eagles should slip, it's anybody's NFC. Who's a clear-cut #2? New Orleans? Seattle? Detroit? St. Louis? They're all beatable. Why not the Jints? (Hey, it's something to dream about, isn't it?)

What was sweet about Emmit was watching him THROW a TD pass! :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 09:20 am:   

The Pats, The Eagles, Indy, Jax is coming, Minnesota (They were a play and a bad call away from beating the eagles), the jets (I'm wait and see on them), and Seattle (i don't buy them). The Falcons have a good D and Vick is improving. They;re a lot more than Vick. Matt Schaub is a player. I don't see the Giants beating any of those teams....Maybe on an off day, but not when it counts.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:00 am:   

I see the Pack is trading MacKenzie for a second rounder and a young third string QB to NO.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:12 am:   

Isn't Matt Schaub the ex-VA QB?

I think it's conceivable the Giants could beat four of those teams. Not likely, but conceivable. The Vikes and the Falcons will, history tells us, come back to the pack (if not the Pack :-)). I was impressed by the Jets vs. the Fish, but I think I would be impressed by All Saints High vs. the Fish. Seattle I just haven't seen enough of yet. I think any of those squads could be had. Randy Moss has to prove he can bring it in a big game. Michael Vick has to prove he can last a season.

As far as the Falcons go, Matt Schaub is going to need to be a player. Vick is a race car that can't take an offroad pounding.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 10:46 am:   

Schaub---he's a Cavalier.

The Vikes are different this year and Atlanta has a D.

You say you're not celebrating, but four games into the season, you're comparing the Giants to the best in the league. I'd worry about beating the Boys--that;s enough of a chore. Scoring 14 points against the Packer D probably didn't leave the Cowboy D shaking in their boots.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:03 am:   

No, I'm not putting the Giants in the same league with those other teams. I'm saying, those teams could be beaten, as you say, if they have an off day. If the planets line up just so.

You'll notice my list of the league's best teams did not include the G-Men. As I said, I'm a fan, but I'm not insane.

We'll have to wait and see about the Vikes. They are the Red Sox of football. All the talent in the world, wasted, year after year.

"He's a Cavalier." Boy, does that sound iffy...:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 11:06 am:   

He;s a pretty good QB, complete nearly 70 % in the preseason
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Minz
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:26 pm:   

At this point, swimming deep in the waters of that Egyptian river (de Nile), if the Packers can squeak out just two wins before the break, and get healthy, they could still be competing for a wild card spot. But it's a tough row to hoe, and Lucius' hatred notwithstanding, the Pack will need a healthy Favre to even have a shot. But hey, it's more important to be playing well in November and December...let's just hope they're still playing for something by then. Bleargh.

Anybody got a couple of spare tires? The wheels seem to have fallen off this here bus o' mine . . .
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:37 pm:   

"Nice football story...."

Thanks, Lucius. :-)

I'll join you in singing the praises of Emmitt Smith. The guy just does not quit. As for our respective NFC ball clubs, I say the Pack, the Gints, and the Boys are all headed for 8-8 seasons at this point. This is the NFL, baby! Mediocrity rules!
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:45 pm:   

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is King. If any one of those teams gets a couple of lucky breaks, they could just as easily be 10-6 and playoff bound. When everyone is mediocre, everyone has a shot.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 12:59 pm:   

I don;t really hate the Pack. That would be to much respect. :-) But I think Josh is right. Mediocrity rules. And Dave;s right, too...though 10-6 may be a reach for the Pack. They'd have to go 9-3 the rest of the way.

Emmit's picking up steam. Two hundred yards games already.

Minz, there;s always that pact with Satan...
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Josh Rountree
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 06:28 pm:   

Dave, your point is proven by last years Cowboys.

10-6, by the skin of their teeth.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 07:39 pm:   

Who'd have thunk it? A scoring explosion tonight. 17-17 at the half, Baltimore-KC.
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John Klima
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 08:38 pm:   

You're telling me, 27-24 in the fourth.

JK
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 06:22 am:   

I ain't hating, but I can't recall ever seeing the Rayvens get knocked around like that. Never underestimate the power of desperation, huh? And that clip of Ray on the sidelines wailing about getting double-teamed is one I wish he had back.

Gibbsie is in the Post today crying about a headset malfunction in Cleveland. I hate to say it, but last week, bad officiating, this week, bad headsets...Could Gibbsie be starting to sound like a...well, let's just say winners don't make excuses...
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 07:34 am:   

What ray is really whining about is his offense!

Joe Blows! :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 09:23 am:   

Whining about various excuses, it seems to an ignorant civilian like me, is not the best way to instill the "culture of winning" that the Redskins fans expect from Gibbsie. Maybe I'm wrong...
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 06:53 am:   

Lucius, I have to admit. I was wrong and you were right about Ricky Williams. No sooner do the Fins say "Ok, so you're retired. Give us back out $9 million," then he wants his agent to "facilitate" a comeback. What an asshole. Did he really think he could bolt and take all their dough with him? I can't even begin to imagine what sort of a reception he's going to get from the teammates left to suffer through a humiliating 0-4 start.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 07:44 am:   

But dave, he really has a passion for the game! :-)

I doubt he'll be with the Dolphins. Tradebait.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 08:07 am:   

Supposedly, he wants to go to Oakland, but Miami needs a running game. What does Oakland have to trade for him? Tyrone Wheatley? Amos Zereoue? They are alarmingly thin at that position already. Who has an elite runner to trade? And who would want a distraction like Williams in the locker room? Could he be stuck in Miami?
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 08:19 am:   

I saw interviews with several team leaders. Judging by their words, he would not be welcome. All Miami can expect to get is a second rounder, but they don't want him back.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:25 am:   

Would Miami basically have to eat his contract? For a second rounder? That's what I call getting boned. I'm surprised a no-bullshit guy like Ditka would draft the kid in the first place.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, October 06, 2004 - 10:32 am:   

Ditka says he was different when he came out of college. Don't kbow about the contract.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 10:20 am:   

There was a nifty little feature on Sportscenter today about Ricky's possible return to the Dolphins. Jason Taylor looked ready to rip the dreads out'n his damn head. Other players' attitudes ranged from chagrined to indifferent. That is going to be one chilly locker room if he ever comes back.

According to the news today, RW may declare bankruptcy to get out of his NFL contract. Is that a first? It sounded like Ricky burned through all his money and can't pay off his debts.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, October 07, 2004 - 11:01 am:   

He's probably got a lot stashed in untouchable trusts.
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Dave G.
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 08:40 pm:   

A nice game for fans of defense, but, offensively, Ravens-Skins was...offensive. Like watching two 400-pound drunks roll around on a barroom floor. Watching Mark Brunell throw wormburners to his backs' shoetops is fun, tho. Am I wrong, or does Joe Gibbs look like a lonely, sad, confused old man out there? He looks like he should have a bracelet with his address on it so the police can get him home. Very sad. My apologies to Deion Sanders. He made two very big plays. Game balls to him and Ed Reed.

How about them Jints? 26-10 and it should have been worse; Will Allen dropped a picksix I could have walked into the end zone. These Jints get stronger in the fourth and finish games! Whatever Coughlin is doing, keep it up!

Vick sacked six times? Uh oh. The sound you hear is the bottom about to fall out of the Falcons' season.

The Dolphins are just plain awful. The must painful offense in the league. They make the '00 Ravens look like the Steve Young Niners. Many heads roll after this campaign.

Anyone noticed the Jets are undefeated?
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, October 10, 2004 - 08:47 pm:   

"How about them Jints? 26-10..."

Feed a monkey enough beans and eventually it'll fart the Star Spangled Banner.
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Minz
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 06:56 am:   

I can't wait to read Lucius' response to this:
http://www.packersnews.com/archives/news/pack_18133200.shtml

Nothing like some brats, beers, and true sportsmanship...
(Of course, it's a shame that Tiki also found Lambeau Field so welcoming.)
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 07:17 am:   

Accorsi is wrong, In Green Bay, people clap their hands to drive out devils, as in Tibet and other primitive cultures; this is sometimes mistaken by the feeble-minded for applause.
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 07:25 am:   

"Feed a monkey enough beans and eventually it'll fart the Star Spangled Banner."

Okay, so that explains how the Bucs finally got off the schneid against the Aints, but what about the Jints? :-) Keep on dissin', friends, keep on dissin'!

I am predicting a modestly successful 10-6 or 9-7 for the Giants, maybe a dignified Wild Card exit. I am a little amused and a little worried by the fact that all the "experts" (Tom Jackson, Howie Long, etc.) are now becoming Coughlin fans. When the experts start pulling for you, trouble looms...

Minz, when all else fails, never underestimate the consolations of bad sportsmanship. Our fans, after all, authored the "slush ball game", which sent a coach to the hospital...

The Jets are going to be the surprise team this year. Everyone will be talking about Mike Vick and the Vikings and the Eagles and the Pats, and Curtis Martin, Kevin Mawae and Chad Pennington will quietly position themselves for a serious run.

I am taking up a collection to buy Gibbsie a metal detector. Anyone want to contribute? Could he really be so out of it other teams can decipher his audibles? Wow. The Ravens win must have been seriously satisfying to Mr. Ray after Mr. Portis called him out on ESPN ("I ain't afraid of no man. I'm no punk, I'm no fag..."). What was he thinking?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 07:31 am:   

So the Giants 10-6; next year, tougher schedule, 6-10. And right now they;re an injury away form 6-10.

The Jets are not a surprise team. They are and remain my pick for second place in the Patriot division..
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barth
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 10:18 am:   

“When we pulled out of the parking lot,” he said, “the [packer] fans were applauding us and waving."

nah. they just thought a fresh kegger was on the way.
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Minz
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 11:13 am:   

They were just really ripped, and saw Ron Dayne in the bus window and they figured they were at a Badgers game...
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 03:35 pm:   

Or, they're just real good LOSERS!!! :-)
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~b.
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 05:14 pm:   

they'll have to be, lucius, because a big humiliation's coming for the packers: the lions are gonna sweep em.

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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 05:17 pm:   

Yup.

Hey, Minz, Chris Mortensen is reporting that next year Drew Brees will playing for the Pack. Seem like a good fit to me? How's about you?
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Dave G.
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 06:01 pm:   

Lucius, in the era of free agency, most teams are an injury away from 6-10 (McNabb goes down for the Eagles, Vick stubs his toe for the Falcons, Favre gets concussed, etc. etc.). The Dolphins were supposed to be decent until they lost Ricky Williams. We'll see how good the Ravens look without Jamal Lewis for a couple of weeks. The only teams that aren't an injury away from 6-10 are a couple of elite squads and the ones who have no prayer of reaching 6-10 with an intact roster to begin with.
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barth
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 06:10 pm:   

yep. it's all about the B team.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 06:32 pm:   

Minz is having a nightmare.

Dave...yup.
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barth
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 08:30 pm:   

3 picks in 3 quarters. yikes.

minz, i could only wish this level of collapse on the bears. sorry man.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 08:56 pm:   

Nightmare on the Frozen Tundra. Favre's empire in disarray. Will Minz survive the return of the bad old days? Can he....?
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Deborah
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 09:55 pm:   

Maybe Favre can ride one of those big smelly animals until it freezes to death, then he can cut it open and curl up inside it until Han brings reinforcements...oh, wait, that's a different frozen place, isn't it?



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Lucius
Posted on Monday, October 11, 2004 - 10:14 pm:   

Not so you'd notice. :-)

Big smelly animals....you mean offensive linemen?

They were pouring out of lambeau early tonight. Their tear smelled like cheese.
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 07:03 am:   

>> minz, i could only wish this level of collapse on the bears. sorry man.

I appreciate that, barth. I know what you mean. sans Randy Moss, I'd say the same about the Vikings. Here's hoping he has a career ending injury, and the Vikings run the table without 'im (except for the two losses to the Pack...hey, it could happen. Maybe the whole team will get the flu. Or the bus will break down. Or Culpepper will get so sick of Moss he kicks the crap outta him, and then Moss' posse shoots Culpepper (hopefully only wounding him lightly). Or Moss runs down another cop...in GB this time, and the mob lynches him.

I've never seen the Lambeau crowd bail wholesale like that. Even in the lean years. Granted the stands weren't always packed--actually, they were, but with bench seating and the extra-large midwestern-sized fans, the stadium was packed even with a few thousand no-shows (but always sold out on a season-ticket basis)--but the vast majority would stick around. Can't say I blame them, but it's a sad, sad day for the Packer nation.

Personally, it's actually a relief. (Really. Honest. Hey, it could be true.) Now I can just focus on the Badgers--wait, we're playin _where_ this week? But weren't we on the road against a top twenty team last week? Crap...
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 07:15 am:   

Let me add my condolences, Minz. No longer do we have to wonder "Who cut the Cheese?" It was Tennessee...
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 07:28 am:   

Yeah, I read about the Brees thing. Actually, he could be just the man to bring us back up to mediocre. I knew we'd miss Grady, but man...

And what was up with Michaels and Madden last night? While they mentioned several times that Grady Jackson was injured, and even commented on how a team needed more than just one wide-bodied NT, they never once mentioned, or seemed to be aware that the backup NT, James Lee (all 335 pounds of him), has also been out with injury. Given the amount of time they talked about Grady, you'd think that someone on their crew would've known about Lee and told these clowns. Also, they seemed completely unaware of the rules of the game several times. The overturned interception in the endzone, they refuted the validity of the official's call. I'm not talking about thinking it was a clean interception; I thought on the one side view, you could see the nose of the ball touching the ground--but that's not the issue I'm talking about. They didn't even understand the official's call, and refuted it as wrong based on last year's new rule that if a receiver (or defender) has control of a catch, it doesn't matter if it touches the ground. But the ref clearly stated he thought the defender never had control of the ball before it touched the ground. And neither of these guys even understood that. Given the ridiculous salaries these clowns get to comment on one game a week, shouldn't they at least know the rules? (At least it didn't take Michaels too long to get the muff call right.) All these friggin announcers seem to be clueless about the rules of the game, and I find that completely inexcusable. I don't even care that 99% of the announcers are crappy, they should at least know the GD rules!!! (Not to revisit the crappy announcer rant too much, but I can't believe the only two announcers I can tolerate are both ex-cowboys! Moose and Troy are the only announcers I can even stand, and if they weren't former Cowboys, I'd even say I liked them.)

And the officials certainly were pretty bad as well. Granted, mostly it was in favor of the Pack (just the one TD that should've been overturned--the guy obviously stepped out before he caught it, not that it mattered.) I think it was more incompetency than favoritism, but pretty awful no matter the reason.

I'd go on about what was wrong with the Packers, but I really don't have that kind of time. That being said, Grady and Lee will be back no later than the bye. Whether the team could possibly achieve nine wins--it's possible though unlikely--I don't think nine wins will make the playoffs. Oh, and we'll beat Detroit at least once!!!!

HOW 'BOUT DEM BADGERS!!!
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 07:55 am:   

Yeah, the officlals were bad, the annoncers, but you know who was really bad, MInz? I hate to say this, but a healthy nose tackle is going to fix the Packers. Your two best players were horrible last night. it's over. They are not dead but sleeping.

How about them BADgers, indeed?
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 08:09 am:   

Thanks, Dave.

It's kind of sad that it looks like the Packers' season may be over in Week Five. I'm still saying "may" but it'll take a miracle to salvage the season, which seems unlikely given our D.

It's probably time to point out that it looks like GM Sherman is a huge failure. Horrible handling of Mckenzie situation (should've pulled him aside and simply told him he's finishing the year as a Packer, and that if he really wants off the team, he damn well better perform, or no team's gonna want to trade for him in the offseason--if JT Sullivan becomes at least a solid backup QB and the second rounder becomes a player, it may not be a longterm disaster (that's a big "if"), it's a huge disaster for this year regardless, because we desperately needed Mckenzie to play corner. If we have Mckenzie, I think our D becomes at least mediocre, even without Jackson. Mckenzie is a very solid corner, who only gets beat by top-flight receivers (such is life), and he's very good at run support, which the Pack desperately needs. Bad enough watching Hawthorn get burned by slow WR that used to be QBs, but he's an embarassment when it comes to tackling. He makes Deion look like a good tackler. Three of last night's long runs, Hawthorne should have been able to make a play. And Sharper has STUNK!

Then there's Sherman's firing of our DC Donatell as a kneejerk reaction to 4th-and-26. Donatell currently has Atlanta ranked #4 in the Conference, with one of the best run D's in the league. Granted, they haven't played any elite backs yet, but I'd kill to have Donatell back. He was made a scapegoat for one single play. Yes, it was a horrible play, but given the quality of the D this year, it's obvious Donatell was a good coach doing miracles with some mediocre players.

And Sherman's been a near complete disaster when it comes to the draft. His first draft, in 2002, did produce 2 starters and a very good backup out of six picks (Javon Walker, Aaron Kampman and Najeh Davenport), so he actually did okay. In fact, trading up for Walker is beginning to look smarter with each passing week. This guy may be Pro-bowl caliber.
Unfortunately, it's only downhill from there. The 2003 draft seems to have only produced Nick Barnett, who'll be a good to very good lb if we can ever get a big NT in front of him. I'd give the draft a huge F for only Barnett, but the jury's still out on two DL: Lee was coming on strong until he got hurt, and the jury's still out on Peterson, whose also had injury problems. But unless those two are much better than what they've shown thus far, it's a C- draft at best. And this year's, there only seems to be one player of any ability, and that's Ahman Carroll. Granted, Donnell Washington is a DT on injured reserve, and Corey Williams (300+lb DE), Scott Wells (undersized C) and Joey Thomas (CB who can't even get into the game when we're desperate for corners) are all on the roster, so maybe it'll grade out as a passable draft, but I'm doubtful.

The next few weeks will be very telling. If Sherman can rally the troops, fine. But if he doesn't, things may get ugly in ol' GB.
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Minz
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 08:22 am:   

Okay, things are _already_ ugly in ol' GB, but so far, it's mostly the team that's ugly. Yes, there was wholesale booing and fans bailing out, but we haven't officially pulled the plug yet. (If that's a Sunday afternoon game, I'm betting a lot of the fans would've stuck around to boo until the bitter end.) But it's certainly looking horrible for our heroes. It will take a miracle. (No sacrilege intended: I'm not talking about a true, religious miracle. Just a run-of-the-mill, ridiculously big-run-of-amazing-luck sort of miracle. It could happen. And if someone wants to offer me 1000-to-1 odds on it, I've got 10 bucks I'd be willing to throw awa--I mean bet on the Packers making the playoffs.)
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Dave G.
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 08:32 am:   

Not to pile on, but yeah, that defense looks rotten. The effort was not there. It looked like they were just waiting to be scored on, at least in that first quarter.

Favre isn't a choke, he's just old. He's been doing it a long time. The body can only take so much.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2004 - 08:50 am:   

Minz-looking-on-the-bright-side...

You;re right, it could happen because the league's so shitty. But that doesn;t change the fact the Pack is bad.

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