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Tom
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:35 am:   

Hi,

I have a question that I've been sitting on for a long time, my copy of 'Winterlong' has a postscript or addendum at the back which describes the plot of 'Aestival Tide', however it was radically different from the story that was actually published. What happened to change the sequel so much? I thought the original idea sounded very cool and like it was in an advanced stage (possibly already written).
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Liz Hand
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 10:41 am:   

Hi Tom,

To tell you the truth, I'll have to dig up WINTERLONG and see what I wrote as the projected plot for AESTIVAL TIDE -- it's been fifteen years and I honestly don't remember it.

What I do recall, vividly, is that I found Wendy Wanders a far less interesting character when she became more human; i.e., when she became less flawed. This is readily apparent if you've read ICARUS DESCENDING, the weakest of my first three novels and the other one in which Wendy has a role. Whereas Margalis Tast'annin, the villain of WINTERLONG, continued to interest me immensely. Still does, in fact. My intent was to write a sequence in which Tast'annin became more human as he, perversely, became less organic; as he was transformed first into the *rasa* in AT, then into the Navigator of ID, and finally (in an unwritten fourth volume) into a neural network.

I did write about two hundred pages of AT and scrapped them; on a much earlier computer, and with no hard copy, so I'm afraid they're gone for the ages. Probably for the best! But they may have followed the arc of the original outline. I'll look at Winterlong & see if my memory is jogged.

And no, I don't think ANYONE has ever asked that question before! So thanks for bringing it up.

I always find flawed, and sometimes *very* flawed, characters the most fun to write about. Since WINTERLONG was my first novel, I was still learning that about myself as a writer. I also find that I lose interest in characters after I've dealt with them for an entire novel. An exception to this is Balthazar Warnick, who was in WAKING THE MOON and BLACK LIGHT and has a small but crucial role in MORTAL LOVE -- for some reason, he remains alive for me.
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patton
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 03:19 pm:   

"And no, I don't think ANYONE has ever asked that question before!"

...um, err... well, that's not entirely true, but I guess unpublished, nine year old interviews don't really count. ::sheepish, guilty grin::

By the way, "hi" and glad you finally have a site.

Your "#1 Fan" from the early-to-mid-nineties,
Patton McGinley
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Tom Rogers
Posted on Monday, June 16, 2003 - 06:01 pm:   

Hi Liz,

This is Tom again, thanks for your prompt response. I would encourage you not to be so harsh in judging 'Icarus Descending', it has a fine balance of craft and invention, which is very rarely achieved in contemporary novels in any genre.

I also appreciate your tantalizing threat to perhaps post some additional info about my question, I hope you have a chance to follow through someday.


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Travis Hays
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 03:44 am:   

Hi Liz. I posted a while ago and have been on an internet hiatus of sorts. Tom's question got me thinking, and i looked at my book and it said that the next story was going to be called "The Eve of St. Nynex" or something similar. I don't have it here with me now. It was going to be about Wendy and Scarlett and the others doing a fair in a beachfront town, or that was the impression. I read your post about the silent film Metropolis feel of Aestival Tide, and reread it and got this whole Flash Gordon vibe going on. Tast'annin was a sort of a wonderful Flash on Valium and hallucinogenics. And like patton said, do not be hard on Icarus. I think that if you revisited the world of the first trilogy of novels that you would be able to put into words the things that frustrate you about those stories quite easily.

By the way, contrary to popular belief I do think that the trilogy had a conclusion. The impending destruction, and the congregation of the products of the whole of that last age in the final scene, sets a tone of rebirth and hope. It goes back to the original concept that i percieved; the boy, the girl, the world, hope, and resoloution. The perception of the reader determines the ultimate end. Life, Destruction, Death, or the endless Dream of chaos that that setting has become.

It's sort of like those choose your own adventure's that i used to read when i was young, only someone has ripped all the endings out.

PS... I read that a freight company in South America is thinking about using dirigibles for transport and maybe even limited travel. It scared me a little... i've read your books. :-)
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liz
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 09:42 am:   

Patton! A blast from the past!

Believe it or not, I was thinking of you the other day -- I found those photos you took of the Balinese temple dancers in front of the Washington Monument, and wondered what had happened to you.

Here's a thought -- if you still have that AT-era interview, and can send the file to me or webmaster Zali, we might be able to post it on the Winterlong site. Then EVERYONE could read the potentially embarrassing material therein!

Tom and Travis, thanks very, very much for the kind words about Icarus. There were things I liked about the book -- Tast'annin's backstory, the energumens, the brain fungus (my fave). In the end I realized it should probably have been two books, instead of one. THE EVE OF SAINT NYNEX was ID's original title. Bantam was concerned about the use of "Nynex," which I had deliberately taken from the NY/New England phone company -- I wanted to comment on corporate culture becoming so widespread that after centuries it was assimilated into religion -- but my publisher nixed it for fear of lawsuits. Thus "Nynax." Ultimately of course the real Nynex Corp. ws subsumed into some other entiyt -- ATT probably -- so I could have used it after all.

Years before I met John Clute, he reviewed AT and mentioned the Flash Gordon connection. As a kid I loved old sf movies and monster movies, and I tried to cram as many movie references as possible into that one novel. I used to watch the Flash Gordon serials on TV -- B&W, of course. They terrified me. So did the Vampira character in PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE. I'm probably the only person on Earth to have been scared by an Ed Wood movie. (I was very young.)

I think that one of the greatest moments in film is when the fembot in Metropolis comes to life: just thinking about it makes my hair stand on end. The scene in AT where the robot Nefertiti comes to life was an homage to that moment.

I was influenced by David Lynch's version of DUNE, too. A real mess, but some beautiful visuals. I liked the whole feel of that movie -- cold and eerie and detached.

What I enjoyed, and still enjoyed, about AT is this sort of tongue-in-cheek energy it had. At least one UK reviewer was affronted by it, and obviously didn't get the jokes; but I still like the Church of Christ Cadillac and the crazed talking prehistoric whale.

Travis, that's a nice, and generous, way of looking at the end of Icarus. Now and then I toy with the notion of rewriting it properly and extending it into a final, fourth volume; but I doubt I'd be able to find a publisher for it. So it will probably just remain a pipe dream.

Ooh, dirigibles! I love dirigibles, and zeppelins; any kind of airship. But probably not a good idea to have them hovering over D.C. these days...
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liz
Posted on Tuesday, June 17, 2003 - 09:45 am:   

Patton! A blast from the past!

Believe it or not, I was thinking of you the other day -- I found those photos you took of the Balinese temple dancers in front of the Washington Monument, and wodnered what had happened to you.

Here's a thought -- if you still have that AT-era interview, and can send the file to me or webmaster Zali, we might be able to post it on the Winterlong site. Then EVERYONE could read the potentially embarrassing material therein!

Tom and Travis, thanks very, very much for the kind wonrds about Icarus. There were things I liked about the book -- Tast'annin's backstory, the energumens, the brain fungus (my fave). In the end I realized it should probably have been two books, instead of one. THE EVE OF SAINT NYNEX was ID's original title. Bantam was concerned about the use of "Nynex," which I had deliberately taken from the NY/New England phone company -- I wanted to comment on corporate culture becoming so widespread that after centuries it had been assimilated into religion -- but my publisher nixed it for fear of lawsuits. Thus "Nynax." Ultimately of course the real Nynex Corp. ws subsumed into some other entiyt -- ATT probably -- so I could have used it.

Years before I met John Clute, he reviewed AT and mentioned the Flash Gordon connection. As a kid I loved old sf movies and monster movies, and I tried to cram as many movie references as possible into that one novel. I used to watch the Flash Gordon serials on TV -- B&W, of course. They terrified me. So did the Vampira character in PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE. I'm probably the only person on Earth to have been scared by an Ed Wood movie. (I was very young.)

I think that one of the greatest moments in film is when the fembot in Metropolis comes to life: just thinking about it makes my hair stand on end. The scene in AT where the robot Nefertiti comes to life was an homage to that scene.

I was influenced by David Lynch's version of DUNE, too. A real mess, but some beautiful visuals. I liked the whole feel of that movie -- cold and eerie and detached.

What I enjoyed, and still enjoyed, about AT is this sort of tongue-in-cheek energy it had. At least one UK reviewer was affronted by it, and obviously didn't get the jokes; but I still like the Church of Christ Cadillac and the crazed talking prehistoric whale.

Travis, that's a nice, and generous, way of looking at the end of Icarus. Now and then i toy with the notion of rewriting it properly and etxending it into a final, fourth volume; but I doubt I'd be able to find a publishr for it. So it may just remain a pipe dream.

Ooh, dirigibles! I love dirigibles, and zeppelins; any kind of airship. But probably not a good idea to have them hoering over D.C. these days...
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iotar
Posted on Saturday, June 21, 2003 - 06:52 am:   

Wow! Bridget managed to find me a copy of Aestival Tide (paperback, Bantam Books) in mint condition in one of our local charity shops. Cost 50p.

Yesterday I found a 1974 Panther edition of The Abominations of Yondo in another charity shop - again for 50p.

Unlikely, rare, out of print books seem to keep turning up in Walthamstow!
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liz
Posted on Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 04:23 pm:   

Aestival Tide and The Abominations of Yondo! They sound like they should be paired as an Ace Special!

To display my total ignorance, what IS The Abominations of Yondo? Great title ....
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iotar
Posted on Monday, June 23, 2003 - 01:38 am:   

A collection of Clark Ashton Smith short stories. The story The Abominations of Yondo itself is short, grotesque and brilliant - all grossly overwritten baroquery!

I'll add an Aestival Tide coverscan to the site soon. Then all we need is a cover for Icarus Descending for a complete set. Anyone out there got a copy of this and a scanner?
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liz
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 07:01 am:   

Ah, the dreaded Klarkashton! Grossly overwritten baroquery at its finest!

I love ZOTHIQUE -- when Jeff VDM first got in touch with me re: ALBUM ZUTIQUE, I read the title too fast and thought it was ALBUM ZOTHIQUE: an anthology of stories in the Clark Ashton Smith mode. Which would make a nice book in itself ...
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iotar
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 08:54 am:   

I'm thinking of building a small baroquery in my garden. It'd have to have purple-black flesh eating plants and magnificent vermillion turquoise flowers that pulse with hypnotic moire swirls exuding puffs of narcotic pollens.

Reading Aestival Tide at the moment in my great tradition of reading stuff in the wrong order: Logan's Run drawn by Kevin O'Neil on hard drugs! But I insist on imagining this book with Logan's Run hairstyles.
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GabrielM
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 09:12 am:   

The "stories in the CAS mode" was done as an actual anthology a few years ago edited by John Pelan. It was called The Last Continent, New Tales of Zothique, and wasn't half bad if I recall correctly.

CAS is one of my all time favorite writers. ABOMINATIONS is one of the later anthologies but has a lot of great material including not only the title story but the lovely "The White Sibyl" and others.

I've gone to great lengths to collect the original editions, but there's much to be said for the Panther paperbacks, in particular the fact that they have some awesome covers.
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iotar
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 10:13 am:   

GabeM: Yeah, I love those Bruce Pennington covers. Worth the asking price by themselves, even more so if the asking price happens to be 50p. I've got a few of the Panther's but also Xiccarph in the Ballantine Adult Fantasy edition - lovely exotic garden cover, if I see any more of these over here I'll probably snatch them up.

I'll have to look out for that Last Continent anthology, presumably not to be confused with the Edmund Cooper(?) novel?
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GabrielM
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 11:14 am:   

There's an old LOST CONTINENT from Edmund Coooper and there's also one from Cutcliffe Hyne. Coincidentally, the latter was published by Lin Carter in the same Ballantine Adult Fantasy line that's XICCARPH's a part of. I have it because I collected that whole line but have never read it. I think it's one of those "lost race" type books. Those paperbacks also had some real nice covers.

But no relation to John's book, the cover of which is below. I can't remember whether anyone who has a board here had a story there -- I think Rhys did. Anyway it's a fun anthology.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0966566238.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

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Tom
Posted on Tuesday, June 24, 2003 - 12:23 pm:   

I didn't anticipate that I'd have anything more to contribute to this discussion, but I have only encountered the word 'energumen' twice. The first time was a poem by Clark Ashton Smith many, many years ago and the second, of course, was in 'Icarus Descending'. Smith was a very interesting fellow who pops up in the oddest places, he gets fairly lavish acknowledgements from Ken Yasuda in his book/thesis on the haiku in English, which collaboration must have a very interesting tale behind it, since it would appear that Smith was a reclusive sculptor at the time it took place. I think that rather than describing his work as baroque, I would characterize it as wretched excess of the Elizabethan variety.
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liz hand
Posted on Wednesday, June 25, 2003 - 01:34 pm:   

That's funny about energumen -- I think I came up with it from a reference in either Shelley or Keats. Or maybe Mary Shelley? I have no idea now ... but the CAS connection is perfect.

I first read Zothique in that Ballantine Adult Fantasy edition. My exposure to just about everyone came from that series -- back in the late 60s/early 70s there was no fantasy industry per se, and Lin Carter's reprints were pretty much the only game in town. Fortunately it was a very good game. They did have some great cover art -- the Gervasio Gallardo illustration for LUD-IN-THE-MIST was especially nice, and I loved the kind of 60s psychedelia that graced THE KING OF ELFLAND'S DAUGHTER and THE ISLAND OF THE MIGHTY -- can't remember that particular artist's name but I still have them all somewhere.

I used to send off 95 cents, in change, to Ballantine and haunt the mailbox until the book arrived. I never did receive my copy of THE DREAM QUEST OF UNKNOWN KADATH, which I think also had a Gallardo cover -- I did finally see it somewhere years later.

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GabrielM
Posted on Thursday, June 26, 2003 - 08:19 am:   

They came out before my time, but are lovely books and I enjoy collecting them. For many out of print titles they're still the least expensive option. I believe I have them all with the exception of their edition of Chesterton's MAN WHO WAS THURSDAY, which is rather scarce for some reason and fetches high prices. It also has one of the nicest Gallardo covers. Carter was a bit of a hack as a writer, but he could certainly choose 'em.

I think Jo Fletcher at Gollancz is doing much the same thing for today's readers with the Fantasy Masterworks series, which is also quite good.
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Rhys
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 07:01 am:   

Yes, Lin Carter was an abysmal writer but a superb editor. He introduced me to Dunsany. He even reprinted Meredith's SHAGPAT, didn't he? An amazing choice.

I love the Fantasy Masterworks series... Fletcher Pratt's THE WELL OF THE UNICORN, E.R. Eddison's MISTRESS OF MISTRESSES, Poul Anderson's THE BROKEN SWORD in its original form... Not the most commercial choices, thank goodness!
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liz
Posted on Wednesday, July 02, 2003 - 08:56 am:   

Ah, THE SHAVING OF SHAGPAT! complete with "The Thwackings" -- I always wondered if there was an unacknowledged Swinburnian subtext there.

Without Lin Carter I think there would be far fewer fantasy writers of A Certain Age working today. Kind of amazing that someone could have such a tin ear for his own work and yet possess the great gift of recognizing the best work of others. I just gave my eighteen-year-old stepson my old Adult Fantasy editions of Evangeline Walton's ISLAND OF THE MIGHTY sequence. He's on his way to Wales and had never heard of the Mabinogion (!), so I thought that this was the least I could give him -- that and THE OWL SERVICE.

The Fantasy Masterworks are beautiful -- I only have a few of them -- great cover art, and another generation well-served by great editorial taste. Nice to have all the Viriconium stories in one volume.

I bought THE WELL OF THE UNICORN in a drugstore in Oklahoma about 33 years ago -- a really cheesy pulp edition, but I was thrilled to find it after years of looking.

Lin Carter should be forgiven everything, if only for reprinting LUD-IN-THE-MIST.
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junipergoth
Posted on Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 10:26 am:   

hi im an english fan of liz hand and love aestival tide. i consider it the best book ever written(for me!) and am so into it. its so stunning and takes my breathe away when i read it, even now. the idea of half alive/half machine aircraft, the gryphons is great. is this the way forward? also the idea of a domed, enclosed city is great. id also like to know about the leading events that happened before the novel aestival tide, you know a kind of timeline or history. but its a great book and kicks ass! i was wondering, who has the original artwork of the stunning mystical girl on the cover? is it for sale or could i get a print of it the size of the real painting? also this is important... liz, im thinking of having the same picture done as a tattoo, a big one someplace, do i need your permission or the artists? i dont want to have it done and then have to hand my tattoo over, lol! ive got some tattoos of lyrics by a band and i know them and they were cool about it but where do i stand in this case? as im using another persons art but for a tattoo. is that allowed? please help! other than that, have you had any new books out since black light? if so ill get them at my local book shop. by the way you have a rare talent... for that im grateful! junipergoth
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Stepan Chapman
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 10:30 pm:   

Hello, Elizabeth.

This has nothing to do with Aestival Tide, but you can't have everything. In fact, in the long run, you can't have anything, but let's deal with that later, much later.

In honor of your "Mortal Love" excerpt and my immortal "A Guide To the Zoo" appearing in the same anthology at the same time on different pages, I would like to present you with a small pamphlet of my humorous line drawings. However I don't know your street address. Can you correct this sad situation? Please e-mail me at stepanchapman@hotmail.com and enlighten me, if you would.
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liz
Posted on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 05:13 am:   

Hi Junipergoth,

What a nice letter! I'm so glad you like Aestival Tide -- actually, I'm amazed you could FIND it! But I'm glad you did.

I think that the artwork was by Mark Harrison, who did the amzing cover art for the UK edition of WINTERLONG -- a painting I wish I owned. As far as I know, there was never a print made, but you could probably do a web search for the artist, or contact the publisher's Art Department and see if they have records.

As for getting a tattoo done, that's a good question. I think living artists prefer that you ask for their permission, but I know I've seen pleny of tattoos based on contemporary art where the person (what do we call the tattooed one? the tattooee? I have a tattoo but have never thought of it!) obviously did NOT get permission. So you may want to ask your body artist. If you like tattoos (I do), you should check out my novella "The Least Trumps," which is about a tattoo artist. It's reprinted in current YEAR'S BEST FANTASY & HORROR (edited by Datlow/Windling); and is also in BIBLIOMANCY, which has just been released in UK by PS Publishing -- that's a collection of four of my novellas.

Ah, the mysterious timeline of my first three novels. Well, the action in Aestival Tide takes place immediately after that of WINTERLONG, which is set about a hundred or so years in the future; say 150 years from now. Though current events may push that up to around 2047 if humans don't start behaving better. The seting for AT was in and around Indianola, Texas, a real place on the southern Gulf Coast; a town that was destroyed, twice, by hurricanes, and has been built up again. Which seems to be just asking for trouble.

Good luck, and let me know if you get that tattoo!
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junipergoth
Posted on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 - 06:52 am:   

hi liz, well, ive got the tattoo and i love it(her). ive had 2 sittings done and will have the last (i think, ill see) done tomorrow. the cost has been 200 but could be more but thats ok. i love the picture and the girl. i actually got aestival tide way back in 1993 and have kept it ever since. im still after a copy of icarus descending, cant get it anywhere in 10 years. the publishers should re print them again. at is my best ever book though and i love it. ill try to email you a pic of my tattoo via your publisher. i dont know if i can put a picture of it on here? i dont know how to do it? any ideas? well i look forward to your next book. have fun, junipergoth
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junipergoth
Posted on Friday, December 12, 2003 - 07:24 am:   

hi liz the mad english man is here again! the tattoo is done and after much pain and cash the end result is worth it. ill get a pic on here when i can. i want to know if having a tattoo of one of your gryphon warplanes from Aestival Tide is possible but what does one look like other than a big dragonfly? do you have a design of one that my tattooist can work with? i think the gryphons are great airplanes. i wonder what their military capabilities and specification is, does anyone have any details? could the gryphons be the next line of warplanes after the F-22 Raptor and Joint Strike Fighter? it males one wonder... well over to you on the gryphon. i think some artwork should be done by someone who can paint as they would look great in flight!, junipergoth
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Sean M. Boomer
Posted on Wednesday, December 24, 2003 - 09:30 pm:   

Hello to Elizabeth and to everyone else!

This is my first time posting here. I am a Canadian fan of Elizabeth Hand, and likewise really admire her work, especially Waking the Moon and Black Light.

Icarus Descending was the first book that I came across. I loved Margalis (I hope that you don't entirely put aside those plans to write a fourth book with him in it) but had trouble identifying with Wendy. I agree with others that you're too hard on Icarus -- I found the ending poignant.
I've only recently been able to get a copy of Aestival Tide, after looking for several years. It is a blast, really and truly. The atmosphere is both beautiful and horrifying, and the quotation from Mirbeau at the beginning is very apt. Like Icarus, one hopes for some kind of salvation, but finds none.

I do have a few questions. Does the doomed (and domed) city of Araboth represent our own enclosed societies in the West? Did some of the major themes in the book (a drowned city, several sympathetic characters of ambiguous gender, the return of an ancient chaotic horror that is putatively held at bay) influence your later works, or are these things that would mostly likely have still emerged from your pen? Finally, as a big fan of Apuleius myself, what gave you the idea of an Apuleius android?

PS: Merry Christmas!

Sean
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Baby_Joe
Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 08:36 am:   

A Belated Merry Christmas Liz,

Nah, this ain't about Aestival Tide. So I guess this is off topic. So sue me. Anyway, it's been years, but I'm here, the real Baby Joe. How I wandered into this forum I have no idea -- I was just trying to download some porn.

Baby Joe
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liz
Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 01:02 pm:   

The real Baby Joe! Pretty soon Othiym the avenging Goddess will be here, asking after her share of the royalties! Send me an email, tbird@midcoast.com, I'd love to catch up!

Sean, I'll answer your questions in-depth tomorrow when I get my brain back from the post-Xmas cleaners...
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Sean M. Boomer
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 08:17 pm:   

Liz,

I'd appreciate that whenever you have the time! I realize that it has been a while since the book was written, so it may take a bit of time to find some of the answers to my questions.

Also, a neat thing that I noticed is that among the great women with whose stories Loretta Riding inculcated Nefertity was none other than Magda Kurtz. I was more than a bit pleased to see a small crossover! 8)
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Sean M. Boomer
Posted on Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 08:32 pm:   

Oh, and one final thing (particularly for Liz who's fond of dirigibles). If you enjoy dirigibles and zeppelins in periodically over the top SF/fantasy, you might want to read some of Thomas Harlan's newsfaxes for Lords of the Earth Campaign One. Thomas is a science fiction/fantasy writer, but his news faxes for his pbem are great. The game is an increasingly divergent alternate history, with Lovecraftian (and other, or even <other>) horrors playing hob with an increasingly embattled human race. In the latest turn, turn 219, earth is being invaded by the Martians, who happen to be a tribute to every Mars vs. Earth story from War of the Worlds to Plan 9 to Flash Gordon. It is great fun, at least for me...

You can read the faxes at

http://www.throneworld.com/lords/lote01/index.html
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Liz Hand
Posted on Monday, January 12, 2004 - 06:05 am:   

Hi Sean,

My apologies for being so late with this -- I'm (as usual) way behind on deadlines/children/etc.

Araboth seems to me to be the natural extension oif the sort of ecological nightmares we're setting ourselves up for (and getting) in the late 20 and 21st centuries. It was inspired by a real place on the Gulf Coast of Texas called Indianoloa, a town I visited often a a child (and a grownup): it had been wiped out completely by a hurricane at the very end of the 19th century, then rebuilt and wiped out a second time eleven years later. You can see the ruins of the buildings under the sea there to this day. And of course, it has been rebuilt again with vacation condos etc. -- a disaster waiting to happen.

As for the thematic similarities between AT and later works, I do think a lot of them continue to resonate in what I'm doing now. Maybe in smaller ways and as background -- I find myself more concerned with character than apocalypse these days -- but still there. I think I kind of shot my bolt for this kind of story with GLIMMERING, which anticipated so many horrible things, some of which have come to pass; though I did recently write a story called "Echo" which deals with some of these themes.

I'll check out the zeppelin stuff, many thanks. I just took down our Christmas tree, which has several very nice zeppelin ornaments on it!
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JUNIPERGOTH
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 07:22 am:   

IM AFTER A COPY OF LIZ'S ICARUS DESCENDING BOOK, ANY CONDITION WILL DO. THIS IS THE ONLY BOOK I HAVENT GOT BY HER AND I NEED IT VERY MUCH. ITS NOT AVAILABLE ANYWHERE SO ANYONE WITH A COPY SPARE WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. ILL PAY FOR IT AND POSTAGE. OVER TO YOU... JUNIPERGOTH
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billc
Posted on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 03:18 pm:   

Go to ABE there's fifteen copies listed.

http://www.abebooks.com/
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junipergoth
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 07:42 am:   

cheers im ordering one now
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JUNIPERGOTH
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 07:55 am:   

WELL... WHEN IT RAINS IT POURS... HE REJECTED MY ORDER AS HE HAS SOLD ALL OF THE COPIES AND NEGLECTED TO TAKE THE DETAILS OF HIS WEBSITE. SO IM BACK TO STEP ONE. ANYONE GOT ANY OHER SITES WHERE I CAN GET A COPY OF ICARUS DESCENDING?
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Roger
Posted on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 02:24 pm:   

Try www.half.com You will have to register if you aren't already registered with ebay or half.com. Multiple copies under 4 dollars (plus postage).
Roger
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junipergoth
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 07:42 am:   

had a look but no copies available
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Brendan
Posted on Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 12:56 am:   

Juniper, not sure if it will work for you, but the BEST place to look is: www.bookfinder.com as it links you to most sellers around the world. They have 23 copies of Icarus Descending listed. I believe those offered by Powell's really are available, as they are pretty reliable. . . . I would be surprised if none of the options on bookfinder worked for you.
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junipergoth
Posted on Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - 06:47 am:   

if you want to look at my AESTIVALTIDE tattoo before its finished you can see a pic of it at this link where ive got a profile - www.faceparty.com/JUNIPERGOTH it should take you to it. ive had it coloured in with a blue background and more shading since this was took.

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