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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:15 am:   

Just read an article yesterday that said that 72% of Americans "believe" in angels. Hold the phone...one more turn in the downward spiral. Can anyone explain this? What does it mean to believe in angels and where the fuck are they when I need them? It seems to me that these days they must be goofing off. Either that or they're all trapped at the local Hallmark store.
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Mastadge
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:27 am:   

Well, there are a whole lot of people (who think they're) on the Atkins diet, too, and probably 95% of them couldn't tell you what a carbohydrate is.
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GabrielM
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 08:51 am:   

I think it's angles, man, 72% believe in ANGLES. I'm one of the 28% that don't, it's concavity and convexity for me all the way.
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 09:06 am:   

Mastadge: That's some illin logic. At least if you cut the carbos, you see the result.

Gabe: You're such a cynic.
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JV
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:01 am:   

They did a poll back about ten years in North Carolina. One of the questions was:

Who was Michelangelo?

About 70% said, "A turtle".

As for angels. I believe in angels. I believe that monkeys will fly out of my ass, too.

As metaphysical constructs, though, angels in the kabbalah are pretty fascinating.

JeffV
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:08 am:   

I believe in the skull-eating angels of Madagascar....
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JV
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:27 am:   

Of course you do, Lucius.

For the record, I believe in the lovable, leaping lemurs of Madagascar, which I think live on a different part of the island than the skull-eating angels.

JeffV
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:40 am:   

Actually, if I were going to believe in anything Madagascaran, I's believe in Rossy, the world music guy, valiha player, who had a future until he boffed Peter Gabriel's (who owned Rossy's label) girlfriend, Rosanna Arquette, and was thereafter blacklisted.

But the skull-eating angels are still cool.
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Deborah
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 10:53 am:   

Jeff, I'd like to think that some part of that 72 percent was people messing with the pollster, or am I the only one who does that?

When I was single and living alone I once told a pollster that the size of my household was three unmarried women, "We're the Sirens, maybe you've heard of us?" Dead silence. I also indicated that we voted Independent and all smoked Marlboros.

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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:33 pm:   

I guess if 50%of people in this country believe in Bush, Angels would be easy. Maybe they meant Charlie's Angels.
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   

Lucius & Jeff: I remember reading a story once by Burroughs about "The Ghost Lemurs of Madagascar," and if I'm not mistaken, Ellen published it in Omni.
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Mastadge
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   

Anyway, 89.34% of statistics are made up on the spot.

'strue!
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rick bowes
Posted on Friday, July 02, 2004 - 12:35 pm:   

I see them all the time. Wings and everything. There's a bar over in Chelsea that's lousy with them.
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Stuff
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 05:27 am:   

If you'd asked me how many people in America believed in angels, I'd have guessed upwards of 65% probably.
I personally believe in angels as a constituent part of my wider faith in God. To what degree they are involved in the lives of people here I do not know, though they certainly have a remit. I see their role primarily as based in heaven, serving and worshipping before the Throne.

Sorry to be part of the downward spiral, Jeff.

Incidentally, with regards to my faith I am both thick-skinned and open to discussion with those who would challenge it so feel free to do so. I'll do my best to reply with clarity.

Stuff
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Al Duncan
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 06:18 am:   

I believe in angels, sure; I just don't trust the genocidal sonsabitches. I mean... eight wings, four faces, sword of fire coming out of the mouth to smite the faithless... I wouldn't want to meet that in a dark alley. How about Sodom & Gommorah? The first-born of Egypt? Nah. J.Hoovah's death squad scare the bejesus out of me.

And Angles are just as bad. Them, the Jutes, the Frisians and the Saxons. Stole my bloody country, they did.
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MarcL
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 02:14 pm:   

Once, thanks to a thankless job I had, I was exposed to the self-published memoir of a poet of several well-known Christian inspirational pieces. She was also convinced, of course, of the existence of angels. One of her defining anecdotes offering evidence of angels referred to an event in the life of her young child. The child was outside the house, untended by adults. One of their friends had left his Harley-Davidson parked in the yard and the child went over to investigate it. The next thing they knew, the bike had tipped over, crushing and nearly killing the tot. Rush to the hospital. Emergency surgery. Skull fracture or something very serious, but the kid was saved. When the mother bent over the finally waking child, the babe's first words were, "Wings, Mommy!" This was taken as evidence of an angelic visitation. But I ask you, when a little kid goes over to look at a Harley-Davidson, what is the thing that likely attracts them in the first place, and the last thing they are likely to see as it tips over onto them? Take a look at the Harley-Davidson logo.
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 05:30 pm:   

Stuff: Thanks for your input. I always appreciate comments from the opposite perspective.
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, July 05, 2004 - 05:31 pm:   

Al: How the hell are you? I trust things are going well with you and the rest of the gang in Glasgow. Watch those angels. You been writing anything?
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neilw
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 01:34 am:   

Jeff - you didn't oughtta have gotten Al started on angels. He's got kind of an old-school perspective right there. We're in trouble now fer sure.

Al - yeah, the Frisians? Bastards. And their bloody cows!
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Al Duncan
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 02:01 am:   

Hey, Jeff. I'm doing good; things are fine with the Glasgow gang... bunch of us all getting on with novels and stuff, looking forward to Worldcon next year. How was the rest of yer stay in good old Albion, and how've ye been?

Writingwise? Yeah. I'd such a great time at Eastercon - though I'm still suffering Pirates Of The Caribbean flashbacks to that theme bar - that I came back with a real buzz on, polished off my first novel and am now halfway through the second. Funny enough, it has angels in it. Scary buggers. "Watch 'em"? Hell, yeah. Through a telescopic rifle-sight, mate.

Anyhoo, it was cool hanging out with ye and I hope to catch up with ye next year. Working on anything yerself at the moment?
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Al
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 02:10 am:   

Neil: I promise not to rant. Angels, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, or their bloody cows... we may not like them - or indeed trust them - but they all deserve tolerance at the very least.

Now the Swiss, on the other hand...
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neilw
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 04:50 am:   

The Swiss? I'm not even going there. Not after the last time (your demonstration that Toblerone is the invention of the-devil-hisself was both eye-opening and eye-watering).
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Robert Burke Richardson
Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 10:06 am:   

I believe in the Amateur Angels who used to send me email before I learned about filters.
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jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 05:01 am:   

Marcie: Thanks for the Angel story. I think that about sums it up.
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jeff ford
Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 05:03 am:   

Al, Neil, Robert: Out at Clarion is Michigan and I am borrowing someone's internet connect, so can't write much now. Will in a few days if possible. Glad to see you on the board. Talk to you soon.

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