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Trent
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:20 am:   

Hey, Jeff,

Thanks for facilitating communication over at s1ngularity. It may be one of those situations where no one listens--zero-way mirrors. I find when people probe deeply into my thoughts, the thoughts become more fleshed out although sometimes probings may be too much "spike" at first. It's hard but we have to read around them for the meat of the matter.

Anyway, this all goes to say that I appreciate your opening lines of communication. I admire what you attempted to do.

Peace, Brother, (There's a reward in the karma/afterworld for peace-making, conciliatory acts like yours.)

Trent
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 04:52 pm:   

Trent: I was in my helpful guise, it doesn't happen very often. I'm on the newsgroup for the Interstitial group and I saw that some of the members were commenting on Gabe's initial post and dismissing him in the same off hand manner that he had been dismissing them. I figured that he was expressing a genuine feeling about the group and that there was a lot to learn on both sides. So... My own intrerest as far as art goes is much more centered around the expreience and vision of the individual and not so much movements and groups. Too often I think we miss the trees for the forest. I think Midori Snyder showed herself, not that it was necessary, but to be a pretty astute thinker and a first-rate human being in her posts. I already knew that about Gabe, even if he tries to hide it sometimes.

Best,

Jeff
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ellen
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 06:38 pm:   

Which post of Gabe's was that? And where?
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 08:06 pm:   

Ellen: Over on Gabe's criticism blog message board.
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The Other Gabe
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 08:46 pm:   

Maybe it was obvious, but the Gabe in reference here being Gabe Chouinard, btw.
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ellen
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:36 pm:   

Jeff,
Thanks (I think ). Another time sink.
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, January 26, 2004 - 10:56 pm:   

Ellen: They eventually lead to other universes.
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ellen
Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2004 - 02:41 pm:   

One where I can have another head and brain cloned to my neck?
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mike bishop
Posted on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 05:39 am:   

This may not be the place for this post, but I just wanted to let you know, Jeff, that I taught your story "On the Road to New Egypt" in my Christ in Contemporary Imaginative Lit. course at LaGrange College a day or two ago (I have only four students and one auditor, and I photocopied the story for them), and my sharpest student, a young fellow named Josh Ruffin, pronounced your story his favorite among the complementary short pieces that we studied. And all agreed that it was easily the most entertaining among these stories (which included Dostoevsky's "The Grand Inquisitor" from The Brothers Karamazov) and a grand relief from Jose Saramago's magisterial The Gospel According to Jesus Christ, the last of the three novels that we discussed. Anyway, at this point, I guess I'm asking forgiveness for using your story without first asking permission.

All the very best,

Mike
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, January 30, 2004 - 11:16 am:   

Mike: Forgiveness? On the contrary, I'm glad to have been of service. Thanks for sharing the story with your students. I'm glad some of them liked it. And yes, this Mr. Ruffin sounds like a very discerning fellow, to be sure. In all seriousness, the class sounds fascinating. I remember in community college I took a class called The Literature of the Bible, which was basically the bible as an epic, minus the hoodoo, and it was one of the best classes I took at that school. Hope you are doing well.
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Bob
Posted on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 05:09 am:   

Hey Jeff,
If you thought that class on the Bible as lit. was interesting, you might pick up THE BOOK OF J and give it a whirl. That's assuming, of course, that you already haven't.
I loved reading the original text -- what they have of it -- of what became Genisis and seeing how much more imaginative and playful the original author was compared to the long line of revisionists who followed.
Anyways....
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Lucius
Posted on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 08:24 am:   

Jeff,

I sent you an email the other day -- got no answer and that would be okay....but I'm not getting responses to lots of emails and I;m wondering if this is MyDoom at work and a sudden burst oof unpopularity. Did you get an email from me sent yesterday?
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jeff ford
Posted on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:22 am:   

Bob: Thanks for the suggestion, but I've read The Book of J, and did find it interesting, even though it was presented and waggled about by that major literary fart stopper, Harold Bloom.
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jeff ford
Posted on Saturday, January 31, 2004 - 09:24 am:   

Lucius: Just ripped one off to you. Sorry, but I'm avoiding the internet for certain hours of the day now. As I tell you in the e-mail, it has become for me like the refrigerator is for Ellen Burstyn in that Aranofsky flick about the Heroin addicts. Thanks for dropping a line.
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Bob Urell
Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 04:39 pm:   

Hey Jeff. Yeah. Bloom. You know, I think that guy's about as smart as they come, which makes the fact that he can still come off pretentious about as monumental a statement about him as anything. I still read his books, but I find myself filtering out about 75% of the rhetoric in trying to get to the good stuff. The man's good at what he does, but he talks more shit and picks more fights than a drunk Marine on a three day pass.
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Matthew
Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 08:08 pm:   

I haven't read a lot of Bloom, but, from what I have read, he seems to warble between brillance and idiocy.
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Bob Urell
Posted on Sunday, February 01, 2004 - 09:56 pm:   

I think, though he'd never admit it, that Bloom picked up the polemical bug from Frye. Alot of critics did, and still do. It's somehow mandatory to take a stance first, then inform it through whatever intellectual contortions necessary, second.
Take Bloom's piece about King winning the DCAL; if he'd taken the time to think about it, I doubt he'd have gotten so worked up. King isn't the first commercial writer to pick up the Lifetime Acheivement Bowling Trophy, and he's not even the worst of the lot (that would be Toni Morrison....). The award means nothing, less than nothing, really. It's an industry award, not any indicator of true artistic contribution. Bloom certainly knows this and probably cared less about King being honored than pissing his name in the dirt for posterity.
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Trent
Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 04:48 am:   

Jeff,

Remember when I said I'd let you know if I thought of something? Well, I put my head on chopping block for y'all.

A lot of links are used to anticipate arguments against.

Hope it's of some use:

http://s1ngularity.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_s1ngularity_archive.html#107572456289 310366

Take care.
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, February 02, 2004 - 08:51 pm:   

Bob & Matthew: I don't know too much about bloom, but I hear him on the radio occasionally on NPR and he's as imperious as they come. Still, I thought J was interesting. As for the thing about King, I don't understand what the big problem was giving him an award. People read books for all kinds of reasons and King has certainly written some good ones. My favorite thing by him is the title story of "Hearts in Atlantis," the one where the kids in college become obsessed with playing Hearts. I can't think of how it could have been any better written. The first novella in that book is really great too. There are, on the other hand, some real dogs. Just like that dog Bloom wrote where he was bemoaning how stupid young people are these days because they don't share the interests or knowledge of a decrepit old fart. If that's not the oldest and stalest complaint on the face of the earth, I don't know what is. Marshall McLuhan (sp?) was one of the few guys who got that scene right. He basically said, "Shit I'm in over my head already with these young people. I have a lot to learn." Because he had that idea, he had a lot to offer.

Trent: I'll check out the essay tonight. Thanks for giving the subject some cogent thought. And for letting me know about it.
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Matthew
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 02:22 pm:   

The major problem I have with Bloom is that he seems to have a poor opinion of Edgar Allan Poe. The major thing I like about him is his support of Ursula K. Le Guin as a major writing talent.
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 05:26 am:   

Poe is one of American Literature's greatest writers. First with science fiction, first with detective fiction, a metaphorical cosmology, poetry, criticism, a novel, and all of those amazing tales. I didn't know this about Bloom. He must be a total dick. As for LeGuin, I've never been a fan of her fiction. It always reads flat to me. I know I'm in the minority with this, and that her work has many admirers, but I don't get it. I do get her politics, though, and I admire her as being (for as much as I know about her) a first-rate person.
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paulw
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 05:56 am:   

Bloom is also a champion of John Crowley's work.

And his book on Shakespeare is interesting and rewarding, if far too long and repetitive.
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mike bishop
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 06:16 am:   

I'll put in a good word for Le Guin, regardless of Bloom's good opinion of her. When I was first seriously reading SF in the late 1960s, my coming upon the Ace Science Fiction Special of The Left Hand of Darkness, and my reading of it of course (in that compact little edition with the beautiful Leo & Diane Dillon cover), flipped me toward writing in this field. I'd already read Wells, Bradbury, and some Heinlein, but Le Guin's stuff lifted me out of this world and made me want to go exploring similar territories. I'll acknowledge here, though, that every writer has seminal experiences of this sort centering on wholly personal influences, and it would be a pretty dull universe if we didn't.

Amen to that business about Le Guin's being a first-rate person, Jeff. Seldom will you meet such a class act, in fact. And when she finds something ludicrous (like vampire fiction, for example) and refrains from saying so to those who find it sexy, the smile on her lips simply humanizes her further. As you can see, I'm a partisan.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 06:33 am:   

I'm with you on LeGuinn. Jeff....I dug Left Hand when I was a kid, but the rest just lies there. And I don't keep track of assbags like Bloom, but these guys love to have an opinion like his view of Poe, a little bouquet of shock they can display to demonstrate their "originality" credential. I wouldn't give credence to any of these self-appointed literary critic voices even if they were suddenly to develop the wounds of Christ on their bodies.

Jeff V and I were on a panel at WFC whose moderator began the hour with a statement remarking upon the fact that their child had just read some Poe and been unimpressed, whereupon the moderator reread Poe and concluded that the kid was right. I'm afraid I just kind of sat there flabbergasted from that point forward. And the audience was nodding, uh-huh, uh-uh....Sometimes I have the feeling I've slipped over into some strange dimension where every quality and concept has been devalued.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 06:39 am:   

Mike, as far as that smirk when LeGuinn refrains from trashing vampire fiction, why is that a sign of wonderfulness and not one of snide superiority? And what's wrong with vampire fiction? Why is it any more ludicrous than any other kind of genre fiction? Writers like Todd Grimson and others have done really interesting work in that sub-genre. Vanpires are just another trope that you can wok to advantage if you. Obviously there's a lot of crap written about vampires, but I suggest there's just as much crap written about aliens and robots et al....
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 07:11 am:   

Mike: If her books turned you on to writing sf/f then that’s another credit in her favor as far as I’m concerned and maybe even a reason to go back to her books and reassess my assessment when I get a chance. I read Left Hand of Darkness when I was younger and although I was turned on by the ideas in it the writing seemed very dry to me – like wooden. The fact that she has so many readers and fans and the weight of evidence in her favor makes this one of those situations where I am more than willing to admit that my perception of her stuff is screwed up.

Best,

Jeff
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 07:13 am:   

Lucius: I teach Poe and my college students love his stuff. The fact that that person moderating the panel gave Poe to her kid is indicative of a trend. Poe is not an easy read. There is a lot of complexity in the sentence structure and the ideas in the stories are profound and deeply psychological. In this culture we have a tendency to relegate to children’s literature many great works that are not an easy read but that we know we shouldn’t just toss away. I’ve seen this happen to Gullivers Travels, Poe’s Tales, Moby Dick (hard to imagine but true), Robinson Crusoe. Even though there are kids out there, and probably more than you would think who are with it enough to appreciate these works, Gulliver is not a kids book. Scatalogical imagery, philosophical undercurrents concerning the inherent subjectivity of the human condition, crank misanthropy, and bawdy humor. Or Defoe’s masterpiece which captures the sense of the passing of time nearly on a par with Proust. The idiosyncratic and totally original structure of Robinson Crusoe. Kids are given the responsibility of saving these books for when an adult comes along who can open their eyes and see them for what they are. Poe was dissed in his life time also. Emerson called him The Jingle Man for his poetry, as if he was fucking Barry Manilow. A lot of people don’t get the hilarious nature of Poe, they think he’s maudlin or too gothic. I have to crack when I read The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar or Fall of the House of Usher (these two of the greatest stories in the language). The fact that Bloom is a champion of Crowley’s work, as Paul pointed out, is fine, for Crowley is an terrific writer, but it is also kind of safe, because he can get away without having too much of the stink of genre on him.

Best,


Jeff
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 08:12 am:   

Jeff,

I read Poe and Defoe Swift (and Shakespeare, for that matter) before I was ten, and I'm quite sure I didn't get everything there was to get in the book; but I got enough to enjoy the experience. All those things you say about the subtext and themes in these writers' work are true, but the books can all be read on a more superficial level, one that can surely entertain a child...and while the child may not be able to articulate what he gets out of the experience, I'm sure he or she gets more than he is aware of. Too many children these days are not challenged or even led to such books-- this underestimation of children's capacities is in some part due to our general cultural dysfunction. My beef with the moderator (one of my beefs) relates to her reaction, less than to the child's.

I agree with your estimation of Poe's humor. Many of the 19th century writers, now perceived through a lens that oversanctifies their work, have a massive streak of humor in their stories that has been neglected. For my part, Moby Dick has always struck me as comic in a very modern sense, comic in much the way that your guy Gardner's The King's Indian is comic. This assertion has gotten me in trouble now and then, but I hew to it and do so without in any way seeing this as a diminution of the book's worth. The imagery throughout Moby Dick has this quality of overcomplexity, this almost Rube Goldberg quality of serial interactions (I'm thinking of the last passges at the moment, the arm waving, the bird, etc.), that, if constructed by a contemporary writer, would be seen as thoroughly comic. I think Melville knew exactly what he was doing in this, that he was juxtaposing comedy and tragedy for effect. Of course I may be delusionary, but I am stuck with that viewpoint.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 08:28 am:   

Oops... I meant to say re the moderator, "...more than to the child's"
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paulw
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 10:09 am:   

Amen to the neglect of humor. And it's not only in 19th century writers. There are plenty of critics and teachers today who do not seem to realize that Kafka, among other things, is fucking hilarious. No, he was a precursor to the holocaust or a harbinger of totalitarianism of some such bullshit. The . . . guy . . . was . . funny, okay?
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Matthew
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 10:22 am:   

I remember a story about James Joyce. He was at a cocktail party or something and a person walked up to him and told that he had read Ulysses. The person went on to tell Joyce about how deep and well-crafted and symbolistic the work is.
Joyce replied, "Thank you, but did you think it was funny?"

Kafka's humor is often overlooked because his stories are so bleak, but if it wasn't for his humor the stories would be unbareable. His work can best be described as bleakly humors. Though some of his lesser work can be described as humorously bleak.
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rick bowes
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 10:34 am:   

Paul

Crowley has graduated to the "so good it can't possibly be genre" catagory and, unlike Dick, didn't even have to become dead first.

Bloom's Shakespeare seems to me an interesting climbing up his own asshole stunt in which it eventually turns out the WS is really Harold Bloom and Harold Bloom is really Falstaff.
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GabrielM
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 11:18 am:   

>>The fact that Bloom is a champion of Crowley’s work, as Paul pointed out, is fine, for Crowley is an terrific writer, but it is also kind of safe, because he can get away without having too much of the stink of genre on him.


Honestly, though, I don't recall Bloom having a particular problem with genre per se. (His problem with King, e.g., is not that King is a genre writer but a terrible writer.) Of the books of critical essays he edited for Chelsea House there are two volumes on fantasy, two on horror and at least one on SF. The guy even wrote a fantasy novel, although I think he still tells his students to burn it should they ever come across it. I have a copy but have never read it. I'm told it's based on David Lindsay's VOYAGE TO ARCTURUS, which come to think of it is a classic fantasy work Bloom's also championed.
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paulw
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 11:26 am:   

Bloom's advocacy of Crowley's work, I've always felt, has more to do with its gnostic aspects than anything else.

And Rick, your analysis (so to speak) is dead on.
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jeff ford
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 12:04 pm:   

Rick and Paul: You guys obviously know a lot more about Bloom than I do. I'm basically talking out my ass and don't even know for sure whether he really doesn't have much respect for Poe or not. Just going on what Matthew has said. I do know I've heard him on the radio, and he's like a cartoon of an English prof. Still, I'm going to take your word for it that he's smooth as a river of butter.
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rick bowes
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 12:23 pm:   

"...he's smooth as a river of butter."

And almost as full of fat.
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mike bishop
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 08:16 am:   

Lucius, I didn't mean to imply that I agree with LeGuin's assessment of, say, vampire fiction, only that she seems so generous of spirit in every other area that one -- or I, at least -- can forgive her the failing of smugness when it comes to this particular point. (In fact, she was smiling not so much at the notion of vampire fiction per se, as at the notion that one should support a prize for Best Vampire Novel every year, if I'm correctly reading her reaction.) I, too, take issue with the prejudice that work in a certain area automatically renders it unworthy of consideration. I've been fighting that assumption my entire career and Count Geiger's Blues, for good or ill, is pretty much devoted to that fight. Anyway, your point is taken.

I still love Poe. I don't know how writing can get much better than the opening sentence of "The Fall of the House of Usher."
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rick bowes
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 09:53 am:   

Almost as a rite of passage, the writing that endures has, somewhere along the line, got to be despised then rediscovered.
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paulw
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 10:48 am:   

So there's hope for R.A. Salvatore?
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rick bowes
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:18 am:   

Well, R.A.'s gotten through the first stage.
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Bob Urell
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:44 am:   

Salvatore STARTED in the first stage. I think it's gonna be a long cold winter.
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Michael Cisco
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 09:19 am:   

My Harold Bloom Story
by Michael Cisco

The Bloom taught a poetry seminar at NYU at one time, and, being a sucker, I attended it. The man showed himself on campus no more than six times in the semester (commuting from New Haven, although he has a place here in the city). When he was in form, he was interesting and had striking things to say about the poetry, although he was also one of the subjects we were evidently there to study. Like the Visible Man, Bloom was the Literary Man.
I'll never forget the day these journalists attended our class - I'm sitting there with German photographer's denimed butt interposed between me and Bloom's face (six of one, you might say), paying for every glorious fractured distracted minute. I didn't go back.

Interesting that this parallels in many particulars my experience in Derrida's lecture series here. He lectured three times to a packed room of people, I sat there utterly unable to make head nor tail of any thing he said. But at least that course was structured properly.

Poe - someone said a taste for Poe is the sign of an adolescent taste or some such, but whatever whoever it was really meant was something more like "we must not praise popular writers too much." The fact that people read Poe for pleasure today, without being forced to do so by teachers, is a telling sign. The fact that Baudelaire was the first to translate Poe into French is a telling sign - in fact, Poe's influence on French literature in general is hard to overestimate, and this kind of influence, coming from an American writer, is nearly unknown otherwise.

Poe's humor - much of it comes into focus only when we realize that pieces like "Bon-Bon" and "Comte d'Omlette" are specific parodies of now all but forgotten contemporary writers. d'Omlette is Poe's lampoon of Nathaniel Parker Willis' high-aesthete styled column in the (mumbles name of journal OK I forgot the name - hell I'm amazed I remembered Willis' name).

Kafka's humor - Many critics fail to remember anecdotes, even coming from Brod, who led the canonization effort, about Kafka reading his work aloud to his friends until he had them all splitting their sides. I can't tell you how much I love to sit and imagine that.

Jeff - I can't agree with you enough about this bad-conscience recruitment of children to save the classics. You vastly outrank me in this area, but I know I turned out to be a reader because I grew up in a house with books in it, and I saw my parents reading.
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 11:06 am:   

Mike, I gotta say that LG has never seemed particularly generous in spirit as regards this ol' southern boy, the Norton anthology and all, buy hey, it's okay by me whatever. I just find her a little two-faced. But that's neither here nor there, and it's sure not a big issue.
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EricS
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 11:10 am:   

Poe--Still one of my all-time and continuing favorites. I think that part of his appeal to younger readers is that he does know how to tell a story that vividly captures your attention, something that may be dismissed with the damning term "accessible." There are psychological aspects to the characters but they don't simply sit around thinking.

LeGuin--Some great pieces, some rather turgid IMO. I found much of the Wizard of Earthsea rather cold for example, except (a BIG except) for the Tombs of Atuan, a book that I reread recently and still found passionately moving.
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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 12:38 pm:   

Michael, about Derrida. Here's a story I heard. Around about 1983 I was an undergrad studying philosophy at Ohio State and we had a guest speaker come in from Yale, a woman who was a modal logician of some reknown and had recently become chair of the Yale philos. department. At the time, Derrida had this sweet deal where he spent one term/year at Yale and the rest in France. On becoming chair, this woman found that they had no files on Derrida, no Curriculm Vitae, nothing like that, so she asked why. Well, she was told, they couldn't possibly ask such a great man to submit his, gasp, credentials. She said she wanted to see them anyway. Things turn round and round, she does some checking, and she comes to conclusion that M. Derrida has constructed his greatness from smoke and mirrors by telling the French scholars how sought-after he is in the U.S., and telling the U.S. scholars how sought-after he is in France. Bippity boppity boo.

I tried to read Of Grammatology but I kept falling asleep and having strange dreams.

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Michael Ciscotology
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 12:54 pm:   

I think there's something to Derrida, but he's basically free-form improvising with ideas at a level that presupposes a sprawling and immediate familiarity with canonical contintental philosophy from the preSocratics to Heidegger (ugh) and all in their original languages at that. In other words, it may be that only the sharpest and most advanced pros, who still have all this material fresh in their minds, and a great deal of specialty knowledge, can really see everything he's doing.
It's Derrida's renown, I think, that's the real problem, since he's being distributed freely to first year grad students in their methods class, and for that matter in English departments as opposed to philosophy (D is a philosopher of writing, not a literary critic). So, like you would expect with brain surgery in the first year first aid class, the result is a tragic mess. Mountains of stunningly worthless writing, all magically immune to criticism somehow. I can't imagine that was the idea!
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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 01:50 pm:   

Yeah, Michael, you make a good point. I think all of philosophy is best viewed as a series of conversations and somewhere in the twentieth century, the three main covnersations were the ones between the Continentals (Hegel-Heidegger-their progeny), the Anglo-American Analytics (including the Vienna Circle and the Logical Empiricists) and the very few who tried to create cross-talk, like the late pragmatists.

What happens too often is that someone grabs a text out of that context and applies it somewhere it was never meant to apply and then all hell breaks loose.

Look at the fact that Kuhn's Structure of Scientific Revolutions is a text used in almost every dicipline, for example. Kuhn was in dialogue with some very specific philosophers of science, and I believe, had much more modest aims.

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jeff ford
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 01:58 pm:   

I think Lucius misinterpreted what I was saying about kids and classics. I have no problem with kids reading the classics, and I know many can handle it as he could, but what I am saying is that to a large extent the books I mentioned above have been relegated to a realm of Children's Literature so that adults don't have to bother with their difficulties. The adults know they should not just be tossed, so instead they hand them to children to keep them alive. The kids do as good a job as they can. I became a reader because my father took the time to read to my brother and I when we were young. He read us adult books, but he had read them himself, and he would discuss them with us as he went along. I'm still probably not making sense. But I'm making more sense than Derrida ever did. I liked some of the reading in my post-modern lit classes, but that stuff struck me immediately as the Emperor's New Clothes. In the long run, though, who gives a shit one way or the other?
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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 02:13 pm:   

Naw, I didn't misinterpet you, Jeff. I understand what you said -- I wasn't clear in my response. i was just saying that some kids get it and that's a good thing. Sure, I agree that it's ridiculous to relegate certain of the classics to children's lit. Like I said, I was suggesting that some kids who get these books continue to love them as adults.
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jeff ford
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 04:39 pm:   

Lucius: You understood what I was getting at? OK, I'm doing better than I thought. Onward!
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rick bowes
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 05:13 pm:   

Michael Cisco- NYU is a cash-and-carry kind of school. With Bloom they hired themselves that rarest of all things, a famous professor. Any time his name is mentioned, so is the fact that he teaches at NYU. I'm sure they've gotten their money's worth. The only time I ever heard him speak was at a seminar on Shakespearean acting. The other panelists were actors - and not quiet, self-effacing ones either. But HB's peformance as a professor was such a scenery-chewing, over-the-top turn that I regretted not having brought a bag of rotten tomatoes.
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GabrielM
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 06:19 pm:   

>>Around about 1983 I was an undergrad studying philosophy at Ohio State and we had a guest speaker come in from Yale, a woman who was a modal logician of some reknown and had recently become chair of the Yale philos. department....


Ruth Marcus?
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Deborah
Posted on Sunday, February 08, 2004 - 08:48 pm:   

Yup. That's who it was. She was cool. I liked her alot even if I didn't grasp all the subtleties of her talk.
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mike bishop
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 06:12 am:   

Lucius, those who don't like or who ignore our own work will never seem "generous in spirit" to us, and I think we're perfectly within our rights to regard them as less than astute, whoever they happen to be, not that you need anybody's permission, certainly not mine, to feel the way you do about LG. I've got grudges of my own or at least suspicions about the taste of quite a number of folks. And sometimes, at least in fantasy, it would indeed be purgative to pelt these people with fruit from rick bowes' wished-for bag of rotten tomatoes. . . .
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 10:25 am:   

Mike: When you, Lucius and Rick are done with the tomatoes, pass them over here. I've got a few moving targets I'd like to try for. Of course, that would be while ducking and dodging, myself.
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Bob Urell
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 11:47 am:   

Now wouldn't that be fun to watch.
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jeff ford
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 12:08 pm:   

Bob: Recently read, I believe on one of these boards, maybe elsewhere, your plea to try to get SFWA to recognize Sheckley as a Grand Master. If he doesn't deserve it, I don't know who does. Whether SFWA is going to get this right or not is another matter. But I appreciate your attempt.
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Bob Urell
Posted on Monday, February 09, 2004 - 09:20 pm:   

Hey thanks, Jeff. I appreciate that.

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