|Posted on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 11:22 am: |
Hey there, everyone --
Since we all meet at Lucius' board for football, I thought I'd open up my board for any NBA and college hoops discussion.
It's early -- and I don't imagine there are a lot of big NBA and hoops fans out there, but if you want to stop by, feel free.
Being that I live in San Antonio and have been a life-long Spurs fan, I'm obviously pulling for the Black and Silver to repeat as World Champions.
I know Lucius is a Laker guy so that should make for some fun this season. Obviously, with or without Kobe, the Lakers are going to be a handful. With Payton and Malone coming in, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Lakers struggle to gel in the season's opening months. I expect they'll figure it out after the All-Star break and finally realize that there's only one basketball to go around. If they avoid injuries and complete ego meltdowns, they're going to be a nasty beast. But those are big "if's".....
The Spurs have no David Robinson this year. So I'm wondering how newly-acquired Rasho Nesterovic is going to contribute. I'm nervous about this guy. Looks like a hard worker, but I think when it comes to playing Shaq, we'll have to rename him "Nestero-Bitch". Maybe Duncan can make him a better player than Garnett did in Minnesota. The Spurs have Hedo Turkoglu (from Sacramento) and I think he may be the X-factor this year. He's such an awkward player, but he never ceases to amaze me with his playmaking ability. The change of scenery should be good for him since he never quite blended in at Sacramento. Here, he'll be a vital piece of the puzzle.
Unlike the Lakers, the Spurs have a cast of no-names and castaways for their off-season acquisitions, but it's an intriguing crew that I think fits the defensive minded profile of this team....Anthony Carter, Ron Mercer, Robert Horry, Turkoglu and Nesterovic. Not pretty. But I think when you put these kinds of vets with guys like Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili and the two-time MVP Tim Duncan, it could be a dangerous team by season's end.
Horry's a head-scratcher for me. I'm not sure why we acquired him, but I'll be very interested to see what he brings when we play the Lakers.
Like I said, all of this is early....but if you want to call your shot or chime in, feel free.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 08:25 pm: |
I got three words for you -- Shaq's in shape.
I got two more words for you -- It's over!
Horry's a nice player, shoots the three well, runs the court, but it was him or Karl Malone....
Two time MVP Tim Duncan...
It's funny, when you ask most NBA players who they think the MVP is, they usually get a baffled look and say, like...you mean other than Shaq, right? Duncan's a great player, but Shaq is a mutant. He'll never get his due, because the ass bags who vote are teensy white guys with chips on their shoulders... but the players know.
That said, I'm not a big NBA fan. I'lll watch the play-offs, but that's about it.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 10:33 pm: |
Hey, Lucius --
Nice of you to drop by.
Sounds to me like you're saying that San Antonio won the ring because Shaq was out-of-shape?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not saying that.
But if you were, that would be one of the lamest things I've heard in a long, long time.
But like I said, I know that's not what you were saying. No way. No how.
What's this about teensy white guys with chips on their shoulders?.....How did that give Duncan a voting advantage over Shaq? You lost me there. Shaq's not white. Duncan's not white. Shaq's huge. Duncan's not as huge, but last I checked, he's still 7 feet tall....
We all know that Tim Duncan winning the MVP the first time was just a fluke and amazingly enough, it was a fluke again last year...and it was a fluke when he got 37 points and 16 rebounds with Shaq and Horry on his hip in the deciding game to flush the Lakers....and it was a fluke when Kobe and DFish emptied a box of Kleenex between them after the Spurs flushed the Lakers in their house...
I completely disagree that Shaq doesn't get his due. He's the only player in the league that gets to use his forearms as clubs (usually to defenders' sternums) every time he rolls to the basket. When they enforce charging one way for the rest of the league, and Shaq gets to violate that rule time after time, I think we can assume Shaq's getting his due. And then some.
So I'll disagree with you there.
The Lakers look pretty. And yeah, they should probably be favored to win it all this year. But there's still only one basketball and you guys have four ballhogs that need the rock to be happy.
And this just in....now MJ wants to play for the Lakers?
Should be a very interesting year....looking forward to it.
|Posted on Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 11:19 pm: |
Yeah, I'm saying this --if O'Neil's in shape and has a relatively decent supporting cast, Lakers win. Lame or not, it's the facts. All the Tony ParkerTurkogluetc you can gather ain't gonna have any effect. Last year Shaq had surgery prior to the season and never got his groove on. This year...different.
Ever since I've been watching the NBA, there's always been a massive backlash against the big monster guy -- the writers always vote for the guy they feel is more establishment material. Case in point, Chamberlain should have won the MVP every damn year -- he was the best player, but Russell won many more. Russell was a great player, but Chamberlain was better. Even when Chamberlain was ringing up Russell-like stats with the Lakes, 25-25 pts, 20 rebounds, 8-9 assists,instead of 40, 20, and 2 assists, they found somebody else to honor. Hey, if Duncan's so incredibly valuable, let's see him guard Shaq...Not gonna happen. He can't do it. Especially now Shaq's in shape.
And don't throw up last year to me, or I'll start bringing up all those blow-outs and sad Spur flame-outs previous to that. Last year was a blip. This year, the world returns to normal. Right is restored.
And, please, this stuff about Shaq and his fouls -- he gets mugged every game and nothing gets called unless it's verging on attempted murder. The teensy white writer guys preach the charging bit and then look the other way when some goon is hatcheting O'Neill. Stars in the NBA get star calls, Shaq gets his and Duncan gets his. Jordan got 'em. Bird and Magic got 'em. The big stars get 8, 9 fouls a game. Your boy's game's more a finesse game, but he gets his licks in. Shaq plays a power game --- guys who play the power gane, Shaq, Chamberlain, et al -- people always say the same shit about them. They get away with murder, etc. etc. Been hearing it for a long time.
As for your ball hog theory....sorry! Malone and Peyton are there for one reason. To get a ring. If it was points they were after, they'd have taken bigger money, which was available, and gone to a team where they could score and go 38-44 for the season.
As for MJ, if that happens, he'll be a bench player. Not bad, if he can give you 5-9 decent minutes. But it's not a real factor. And it's not even a real possibility.
I don't think it's gonna be that interesting a year, truthfully. No more interesting than watching an avalanche of purple and gold washing down the mountainside to crush the tiny villages below.
|Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 07:28 pm: |
Hey, John, let's talk College Hoops for a minute...by the way, another thing to look forward to at WFC (besides the football caucus) is that's the weekend when the ESPN/USA Today pre-season rankings for hoops will get announced.
Naturally, I'm expecting big things from the Panthers again -- Knight and Zavazkas graduated, but they still have a very solid team and they have a couple of very good BIG freshman coming in. Unlike the foo'ball scheduling, Pitt will get tested early, with two preseason tourneys -- the Jimmy V thing has Alabama and I forget who else and then Pitt is hosting one with FSU among others. Good for them. They lost their Genius coach to UCLA, but the guy they hired had been on staff there for a while (Jamie Dixon) and he was the player's first choice.
Rest of the Big East will be as usual, I fear.
How do you think the 'Horns are gonna be sans Ford?
(In the NBA I watch the Cavs and the Blazers...well, it's more like I can't make myself look away from the Cavs and the Blazers no matter how heinous it becomes...but James on the Cavs might provide some entertainment value this year.) (No, Lucius, he won't turn them into an immediate ring-grabber, and they should've probably drafted the Serbian guy, but, he'll play, he'll score points, they might even make it past the first round of the play-offs...)
|Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 10:59 pm: |
I think John's mad at me.
I saw Lebron play and he'll be allright. But the Cavs in the playoffs -- I don't know..= I don't know if he's going to make that much difference. His first game he had 8 points, 3 assists,4 rebounds. He sees the court, he understands the game, but I wonder how much he'll grow...
|Posted on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 - 11:09 pm: |
Gee, I wonder why he'd be mad at you, Dream-Crusher.
Don't you realize that we Fans of Other Teams don't want you coming in and bursting our pre-season bubbles. The whole point of the preseason is that it is Pure Possibility...we need to bask in that for a while. Now, come on, make nice...say it with me, Tim Duncan is pretty good and the Spurs have a chance. (Which I happen to believe, so now you can straighten _me_ out.)
(I'm smiling, I'm smiling...)
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 01:18 am: |
Wait a minute. Wait a minute....
Who said anything about being mad? Much less having "my dreams crushed"?
I've got no problem with Lucius running his Laker smack. I wouldn't have thrown up this topic if I expected anything less! Didn't expect people to chime in saying "Go Spurs!" That's for sure!
Down here in S.A., we heard it all year long last year. All the Laker smack. All the Laker hype. All the "Spurs suck" and "Spurs are soft" talk. It made the trophy and the parade all the sweeter.
Bottom line -- we're NBA World Champions. Deal with it! I won't be running too much smack about my team because I know it's a tough road ahead, but if you think that I'm going to buy any of this "give the Lakers the trophy" smack, you would be wrong.
So keep it coming!
As far as college hoops, I'm going to need to do a little homework over here, Deborah. I'm not very schooled on the current scene right now, but I promise to get up to speed very soon.
Yeah, as you might expect, the departure of T.J. Ford really depressed me. Good players on that Horns team, but they're not going anywhere without T.J.....I think that's a Sweet Sixteen team at the very best this year.
T.J. was just a gamer of the first order and leaders of his sort don't come along very often. I think he made all the other guys better, and I think they're going to really hurt without him, especially in crunch time.
I expect some early season upset losses as they get adjusted to Life After T.J.
Yeah, Pitt had Ben Howland as head coach and he's gone now so I imagine that'll hurt as well. Sounds like he was a helluva coach. Like I said, I need to do a little college hoops homework. I'll be more in the flow by WFC, for sure.
Lastly, as far as the Cavs, I'll definitely be paying attention to see how Lebron does. I think he's going to have a tough rookie year because everyone's going to be gunning for him on the court, and in the court of public expectation. But I'm looking forward to seeing him against NBA competition....even if I'm not looking forward to the inevitable Lebron NBA hype juggernaut about to be unleashed.
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 08:07 am: |
Deborah, I never said Tim Duncan wasn't good, but let's face it -- the guy looks like a turtle. He looks like Dana Carvey playing turtle man in that kid's movie he did. Nobody who loks like a frigging turtle should be MVP. MVT, maybe. Not MVP. In our local Laker fan self-congratulation-fests, we refer to Duncan as Turtle Guy, or TG.
The Spurs have NO chance. Ninguno. Nada. Nuh-uh. No way. Nope. Nah!
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 08:18 am: |
At least TJ has a promising career with the mighty Bucks. Or is that mighty wind? Sigh, where's Sidney Moncrief when you need him?
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 08:26 am: |
Hey, Dreamcrusher --
Much love to you.
I'm alright with my two-time NBA MVP looking like a turtle. That's cool.
Just make sure the Lakers get Kobe's shirt and pant sizes to Eagle County so they can fit him for that dayglow mama patrol orange jumpsuit.....just in case.
(Don't forget the inseam!)
All the best
from San Antonio
Home of the NBA World Champions
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 08:33 am: |
Hey, John --
I think T.J. will do well with the Bucks. He's definitely going to have to bulk up though. His tiny body is going to have a tough time taking the 82-game pounding.
Selfishly, I wanted him to stay at Texas for his senior year. The Horns could have had a shot at an NCAA title and I think that final year could have helped him to gain a little more body mass before the NBA.
Of course, he had some impetus for going early to the draft. He was playing a pickup basketball game in Austin shortly after the NCAA tournament. He apparently collided with someone when going to the basket and landed on his neck and claimed to lose feeling in his extremities.
I can see why he'd want to go get the sure money after a scare like that.
I wish him the best. I think the Bucks will be a better team with him.
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 09:31 am: |
if Kobe gets the day-glo orange, it'll be after the season, because he'll be out on bail during his appeal...
Once he;s iniside, if he is, there's always the fast break...
He'll be back to torment Turtle Guy....
Jim IMNSHO Minz
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 02:17 pm: |
I'm sorry, Lucius, but especially for Shaq's first five years in the league, there wasn't a single game he played where he shouldn't have fouled out within the first ten times he went to the basket (and that's giving him a HUGE benefit of the doubt--only 6 fouls every ten touches is an extremely conservative estimate. What Shaq gets away with is ridiculous--and this is based on watching him bowl over his opponents, since I virtually never read articles about any NBA team but the Bucks--gonna be a lean year in Milwaukee, but at least there'll be better effort than the last two years). And if he doesn't like being hacked so much, it's really simple: he could put in the time and become a better foul shooter. (And don't give me this broken wrist crap: his freshman year at LSU, he actually shot very well from the stripe. It's strictly a mental deficiency on his part--once it got into his head, it never left.)
And I gotta tell you, if I were an opposing coach, and I _know_ a player can basically plow over my guy and dunk the ball with little fear of an offensive foul call, of course I'm gonna tell him to hack the guy. Hell, I'd do it even if the guy shot 75% from the foul stripe, 'cause that's still better odds than watching him dunk over your prostrate defender.
|Posted on Thursday, October 09, 2003 - 02:30 pm: |
I should add that indeed, Shaq is now much better at being subtle with using his bulk. These days, only about one in ten of his offensive moves is an out-an-out blatant offensive foul. (And, as Lucius pointed out, I'm not certain that's any worse than what other superstars get away with.) You do have to give Shaq some props in that he did continue to develop his hoops skills, but I do think he just didn't respect the game as much as he should have, especially early in his career. He could have _earned_ more MVPs if he had wanted to; they were his for the taking.
That's what makes the Kobe thing such a shame, even if he didn't rape her--because he has a true respect for the game and his legacy's now tainted. And obviously, if he did do it, I hope they throw away the key, after castrating him. (This applies to any rapist; I'm just an old testament kinda guy--punishment should fit the crime.)
|Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 10:10 am: |
I'm sorry too, Minz. Sorry the Bucks and the Minnesota Garnetts suck so bad and that sour grapes is the drink of choice in the northern climes. As far as Shaq goes, I'll take the players' word over yours and John's and a bunch of sports writers that Shaq is the Man.
As far as Kobe, if the punishment were to fit the crime, I don't think castration would be the answer. Prison rape would be more suitable. But after yesterday, I'm pretty sure he's not guilty of anything worse than stupidity.
Regarding Shaq's free throw percentage, it's now perfectly adequate, and regarding your opinion of what Shaq gets away with versus the physical abuse he receives, well, as far as I'm concerned you're just reciting the party line.
I'll agree that at times Shaq has gotten bored with the game. I can relate. In my own life, there was a time I became bored with writing, even though it's likely the best thing I do; but hat's human nature. He's not bored now, and when he's not bored he's the most dominating force in the history of the game.
Minz, the guy who likes to paint targets on himself
|Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 12:47 pm: |
>>and when he's not bored he's the most dominating force in the history of the game.
Time to wake up and smell the homer-brewed coffee. For such a ridiculously athletic man of his size, how do you explain his inferior rebounding stats? He should OWN the glass. I'd take Russell over Shaq, any day. Any. Day. (Or Wilt for that matter.)
I would've liked to have seen Shaq up against a top-notch center in his prime . . . not only would it have given us a measuring stick, but might've kept a fire lit under him--undoubtedly, when you can be that dominant, and have to play all those games against guys who don't deserve to tie your shoes, it's gotta be awful tough to stay motivated. (I think Moses Malone could've given Shaq fits . . . Shaq wins the matchup, undoubtedly, but Moses was hoops savvy enough, and big enough, to have made him work for it.)
And that's why I'd take Jordan over Shaq. (Obviously, we're talking when both were in their prime.) He steps onto any playing field, and he wants to win. Real bad. Period. And in hoops, he had unparalleled skill. MJ's the greatest basketball player ever, because of his skill, his commitment, and his desire. Shaq cannot match him on _any_ of these. The only thing he's got going is that he's a physical freak of nature--that huge, but still athletic. And after Jordan, I'd take the Big O. Then Wilt & Bill, in either order . . . every one of these were twice the force Shaq has ever been--and it's Shaq's own fault. He wasted it; he had the ability and size to have claimed the prize, but he wasted it. You have to recognize that, Lucius. (Or at least I can hope you do . . . )
|Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 01:03 pm: |
To my mind there have been a number of players as skilled and as effective in every regard as Jordan. Dr J, Connie Hawkins, Elgin Baylor, and I think Bryant and McGrady have it in them to be superior.
As to Shaq, I didn't say he was the most skilled player or the most consistent--I said "dominating force." He would have manhandled Chamberlain, who was my top big man until Shaq came along. If he wants to take over a game, he does. As for Russell, forget it. When those guys played, they didn't have the big man competition at power forward that exists now. I can fucking guarnatee both Wilt's and Russell's stats would not be what they are if they played today. No argument that Shaq has gotten bored, lacked a challenge, but then he's more of a human being than Jordan, who's kind of an asshole.
"He wasted it."
Huh? He's got three rings. More coming.
"The only thing he's got going is that he's a physical freak of nature. That huge, but still athletic."
Well, you can say that about any great baller. That's what they are -- huge, but still athletic. It's not a category Shaq occupies by himself.
|Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 06:06 pm: |
Hey, Lucius -
All of my previous joking aside....I've always said that I don't fear Shaq when the Lakers come to town. He'll lumber and get his points, but his attention to detail has often been his downfall. It's Bryant that I've always feared. I've always feared Kobe's ability to penetrate at will and when he recognizes that he actually plays with teammates, he's pretty much unstoppable. Kobe has always been the scariest player in basketball to me. To me, the key to beating the Lakers has always been to limit (because you can't stop) Kobe's penetration to the hole. (No pun intended.)
If he can get into the paint, he's such a deadly passer and creates so much havoc for a defense. I don't think Shaq can win a championship with four ordinary mortals around him.
However, I'd argue that Kobe IS capable of being surrounded by four ordinary mortals and winning a championship. His shot-making ability from outside, mental tenacity and his passing ability in the paint are so deadly. He makes other players better. The only problem is that Kobe's ego is so big that he often forgets that he has teammates and does too much, which Jordan did as well in his early years.
I'm intrigued by your statement "that Bryant and McGrady have it in them to be superior to Jordan". For me, Jordan is the ultimate in mental stamina and I'm not sure that Bryant and McGrady (as great as they are) have that same level of mental stamina. I have a hard time imagining that they could ever be as dominant as Jordan over an entire career.
I'm curious -- what do you see in those two that makes you think they potentially could be better than Jordan? No big deal....but I'm curious to see if you see something I don't.
As a final addendum to the above, I've never feared Shaq because David Robinson always could pretty much keep him from completely terrorizing a game. Yeah, Shaq got poster dunks for sure, but David kept him honest on defense even into the latter years of his career. But now what do the Spurs do with Rasho "Dough Boy" Nesterovic in the middle? I still think Shaq's mental stamina and attention to detail are suspect, but admittedly, the Spurs can't depend on defense at the center position the way they always have. Very interested to see how Popovich defends Shaq with no David.
|Posted on Friday, October 10, 2003 - 08:40 pm: |
You're looking with a jaundiced eye. The man has great feet, has developed some terrific low post stuff, is an excellent passer and I don't recall Robinson exactly shutting hin down. When Kobe or whoever gets his points, chances are they come through Shaq. But I'm tired of defending him. If you guys want to join the Shaq bashing party go for it. I'll just watch him count his rings. I go back to what I said originally -- ask the players. They'll tell you, the majority of them, that Shaq is the one guy that no one matches up to. You say it's because of his size. Well, so what! That's like saying, it's unfailr Bobby Bonds hits all of those home runs because of his bat speed or Jordan scores all those points because he's got a 48 inch vertical leap. Duh. A good deal of Shaq'a prowess is Shaq's size, but that's not a cheat. That's part of his game, just like Jordan's jumping ability. This is the same attitude that Chamberlain had to face. He's no good because he's big. It's ridiculous, it really is, man. Now Wilt's dead, everybody goes on about how great he was. But when he was playing I heard the same shit. He wouldn't be shit of he was six-five. But he's not six-five, I'd say. He's seven foot one and what he does with that seven one is amazing. Shaq runs the court as well as any big man in the history of the game, despite being the biggest "athlete" who's ever played the position. He doesn't lumber. I thought Wilt was fantastic; he was the strongest guy ever in the NBA, but Shaq would have beaten him up. The NBA is a phyical league, and Shaq plays physical. If he didn't, the same people who howl about him being a bully would call him a wuss. Every great big man goes through this. Russell didn't, but that's because he was always perceived as the good little guy compared to Wilt. Anyway. I wouldn't fret about Shaq's mental stamina this year. He's ready.
As for Jordan et al, what I see in McGrady and Bryant is more physical ability, the ability to perform in the clutch. Mental stamina...sure, Jordan gets a medal for that. But give these guys their careers and see what develops. Jordan didn't do dog his first six years as far as winning. It's who you're surrounded with. Dr. J only late in his career had great people around him. Did he not have mental stamina? Don't you believe it. If Kobe has a good year this year, we'll put that mental stamina question behind us, won't we? Nobody wins in the NBA unless they have one or two co-stars. You couldn't put four ordinary mortals around Jordan and win. Jordan had Pippen, on the NBA's 5- best players all time. You don't do it alone in the NBA. Jordan was a great player...but the greatest ever. He's in the conversation. But you compare careers. Like in football. If Troy Aikman had played for the Niners, he'd have massive stats. Massive. But he played with a team who had Emmitt Smith. If Paul Warfield had played with the Niners, he'd be Jerry Rice. But he played with two teams -- one had Jim Brown and Bobby Mitchell, the other had Jim Kick, Mercury Morris and Larry Czonka. Griese sometimes threw as few as 12 passes in a game. If Kobe had played his first six years for the Bulls of Jordan's day, he'd have scored in bunches, but he played on a team whose first option was a seven foot monster. So I don't need to hear about stats and shit (that's for you, Minz). Kobe Bryant does things on the court that are, some of them, more amazing than what Jordan did. He's a proven clutch player. He's a winner. He's 24 years old. McGrady...the same. Let's see. As for the others I mention. Different eras. But I'd put Baylor, Hawkns and J right up there physically with Jordan...J and Hawk maybe a little ahead. Jordan's one of the great swing men ever to play. He came up as the hype machine came into full throttle mode and he benefited. But those older guys were every bit as good.
|Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 10:14 pm: |
Uh, John...the Laker-Spurs game. That was painful, man. Even for me. I'd suggest that the Lakers a little bit ahead of the Spurs right now...
Oh, well. No gloating. Nuh-uh.
|Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 10:54 pm: |
Yeah, the Lakers are very much ahead of the Spurs right now. No doubt.
But believe it or not, the game wasn't that painful over here. Over here in San Antonio, we've seen this act before from the Spurs. Start off slowly in November and December. Figure out what pieces work in what situations. And then come January, start steadily working up the standings and building team chemistry.
If this were May or June, I'd be concerned. But it's November. So believe it or not, no worries over here.
|Posted on Friday, November 28, 2003 - 11:05 pm: |
Okay,,,,,That game was out of hand, tonight. I think the Lakers have a bench this year and that's gonna be tough. But if you're not worried, I'm not worried. I mean, why should I be? We shall see...
|Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 07:06 pm: |
Okay. 16 boards, 9 blocks for Shaq. despite foul trouble. He's in shape.
I know you say it's early, John, but San Antonion hasn't been below .500 this late in the season since before Duncan was drafted. They look in trouble to me
|Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 09:21 pm: |
Hey, Lucius --
If the NBA playoffs started in January, I'd be worried. Last I checked though, playoffs aren't until April and the trophies get handed out in June. Looooooong way to go. Long way to go.
Spurs were 9-11 during the first twenty games of the first championship year with Duncan. They're not playing well right now. But it's freaking early December. There's still another 60-plus games to be played before the playoffs even start! No fear over here.....way too early. A four-game losing streak does not equal doom.
Lakers are better right now. No question. But we're still NBA Champions unless someone takes it away from us. And that won't happen during the regular season.
|Posted on Thursday, December 04, 2003 - 09:28 pm: |
But last year looked a lot different than this year. Both teams. For one, the Lakers have a fast break to go with their set offense. Once Peyton and Malone begin to know the triangle....
But I believe you....