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Lucius
Posted on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:17 pm:   

By Robert on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 09:19 am:

There are some brief clips here:
http://www.jester-records.com/releases_sub.php?ID=18
http://www.jester-records.com/releases_sub.php?ID=36

For ordering stuff from Jester:
http://www.theendrecords.com/omega/

I'm not a Gallo fan either. I watched Buffalo 66 because I loved the idea of Christina Ricci tap dancing to King Crimson. Best part of the movie.
By StephenB on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 11:50 am:

Robert, yeah, those clips remind me of some of Patton's stuff.
By StephenB on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:02 pm:

Have you heard Kaada & Patton's album, Romances? Good experimental rock.
By Robert on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:20 pm:

I just heard a few clips, and it has the same effect on me as many of Patton's projects - it simultaneously intrigues and annoys me.
By StephenB on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:20 pm:

Here's a link: It's not popy at all.

http://www.kaada.no/romances/

The sound quality isn't that good on the site, but it gives you an idea. Check out in paticular tracks 4,5,8.
By Stephen on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:26 pm:

The clip for five is actually a shittier part of the song...
By Stephen on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:28 pm:

9's better.
By StephenB on Friday, August 05, 2005 - 12:30 pm:

I know what you mean though, Robert. I don't like everything he does. You have to be in the mood...
By Stephen on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 05:39 pm:

Listening to Coltrane's Ascension. Great, once it gets going. I'd consider it more traditional Jazz then Brew.
By R.Wilder on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:32 pm:

"Ascension" traditional jazz?! That's the funniest thing I've read all day! Although, it is part of MY tradional collection. If you dig that, try "Live in Seattle" and "Live in Japan." Oh, and "Live at the Village Vanguard, Again." And the studio recordings "Meditations" and "OM." That's some strong meat you're tasting, Stephen.
By StephenB on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 06:55 pm:

I'm trying to calm down, so I switched the Jazz with, F-Mac's "Rumours" and C-Steven's "Teaser and the Firecat". Uh, oh.

About "Ascension", it just seems more conventional Jazz then Brew. Brew broke ground, I think. I have been listening to Jazz since I was a wee lad, as my Grandpa played the Trumpet and loved Jazz. He was funny. I loved him a lot. My favourite grandparent. I just haven't gotten that into it, yet.
By StephenB on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:04 pm:

But I'm not saying it is conventional Jazz.
By Lucius on Saturday, August 06, 2005 - 07:35 pm:

In a Sllent way started the new ground
By Stephen on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:41 am:

The more I listen to Ascension the more I love it, maybe even more than Brew. It's a little more raw I think, where as Brew's a little more refined, if less conventional.

Jazz music in general, I think, is mostly about the brass and the drums.

Classical musicians, who look down on percussion as a lesser instrument, obviously don't really get Jazz. Or Latin and Funk, for that matter. The drum kit was created for Jazz by the pioneers of Jazz.
By GabrielM on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 08:35 pm:

Thought I'd mention MILES IN BERLIN is now available in the US. Used to be you could only get it as an import from Japan. It's the very first recording of the "second quintet". The live sound is pretty good despite being mono. As a diehard Coltrane devotee I'm much more a fan of the first Davis quintet than the second, but this stuff's pretty great.
By Lucius on Sunday, August 07, 2005 - 09:03 pm:

Stephen, it's not drums that are looked down upon. it's drummers...

Thanks, Gabe
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:10 pm:   

:-)Lucius, they jus' jealous.

But that wasn't totally fair. In Jazz, key/piano and the reeds certainly shine.

Even guitar and bass, can. Although I think where guitar really sings, is in Rock and Blues.
Bass, in Funk. Though you've got guys like Stanley Clark, in Jazz.

Any instrument in Jazz can cook. Listenin' to Giant Steps right now.

Haven't you seen Tony Williams live?
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:36 pm:   

Yeah, I saw the Lifetime live. The PA blew up next to my head, and I couldn't hear right for several days. They were great til that happened.

I think it's the fact that drummers are repressed as children, forced to play on practice pads, this gives them warped personalities when they grow up.

Let me know when you get to Albert Ayler and the greatest drummers I know, Sunny Murray and the incomparable Milford Graves.
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:44 pm:   

That'd be great, aside from the 'splosion.

Will do, thanks.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 02:53 pm:   

You didn't say anything about my theory of drummer behavior...:-)
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Stephen
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:17 pm:   

Well, in that case, you don't have to be an ex-Catholic to write dark fantasy and horror. Just become a drummer.:-)

But the theory has no weight. Maybe instead, think of it as having more to do with the type of person attracted to the instrument in the first place...
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:19 pm:   

I'd rather not. :-)
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Stephen
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:29 pm:   

:-)Okay, enough drummer bashing. They're as diverse as any... including dark fantasy writers..
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StephenB
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:31 pm:   

Speaking of drummers. Anyone seen a preview of that Tommy Lee goes to college show?...
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 03:48 pm:   

Not I....


We used to audition drummers pretty quickly. A guy would pull out a pair of Kieth Moon baseball bats and I'd say, That's okay, man. :-)

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Stephen
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:25 pm:   

Yeah, I've never liked the big awkward sticks. I've always prefered the lighter, round tipped type stick.

But, sometimes for Funk drummin', a moderately thick stick's good.
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Stephen
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 04:30 pm:   

I liked the Vic Firth signature series for a while.
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Lucius
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 05:01 pm:   

Did Vic sign those? :-)
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PM
Posted on Monday, August 08, 2005 - 08:12 pm:   

I think it's the fact that drummers are repressed as children, forced to play on practice pads, this gives them warped personalities when they grow up ---Lucius

Ah these feelings are released by beating on others...the syncopation and tempo variations are usually rather confusing to the unaware...
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StephenB
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 10:31 pm:   

Wow, so I'm watching that INXS show for the first time... don't know whether to laugh or shoot myself.

Are you ready for a new sensation! Hilarious.

They've all been terrible so far.

Did anyone catch JD's little convulsing hand move? He really feels the music, man.:-)

Jessica, sure she looks hot, but she's horrible. How dare she! Kurt's ghost is trying to put himself out of his own misery if he's watching...

And don't get me started on Navvaro...

Anyway, I don't know how you guys can watch this every week and then comment with a straight face.

These people are so cheesy. Look at 'em dance.
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Stephen
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 10:56 pm:   

Well, I like the Marley song that Ty performed, but they managed to completely miss the feeling of that song entirely. The band couldn't even play it properly. He showed some vocal pipes and that's about it. If that's the most soulful performance yet, well, 'nuff said.
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Lucius
Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 11:44 pm:   

Come on, man. It's fun to mock them.
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ben peek
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 05:14 am:   

i thought the girl was cuter than cobain. that added a lot to my appreciation here.

i reckon it's pretty obvious that anyone female or vaguely ethnic looking is screwed, though. INXS is all about them white boys ;)
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:57 am:   

Oh, yeah. Marty's the guy. Or (shudder) Mig.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 08:01 am:   

Sure it's fun to mock them...
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 08:17 am:   

Well, we in full-on mock mode..... :-)
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 08:42 am:   

Did you notice Narvarro slyly give Jessica the finger after her "Come As You Are" performance? As in he held out his middle finger at the side of his face.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 08:44 am:   

Damn, I missed it. Sounds like a great episode! And I won't hear a word against my new favorite show! :-) At least until "Rock Star: Nirvana" next year...
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 08:49 am:   

I guess she wouldn't do him.....

One of the other woman had some weird comments when she was bounced that made me think there was some sexual harassment. Dabna, I think.
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:07 am:   

No, I think in this case he was trying to save face after she demolished the Nirvana song. He probably still wants to try and hang onto some respect with real rockers. Won't work. He's lovin' it, being the big man on the show, sittin' in his chair, dealing out compliments and burns on a whim. Notice how when he gives one of the guys a lame compliment he gets a little more intense, like he's testing their reaction to decide whether he meant it or not. Playin' a power game. He's full of shit. He doesn't want anyone to come close to his own ego. He's pathetic, considering what he's a part of.

But I have no doubt about the sexual harrasment, he probably gets away with most of it...

Remember his little comment to the host girl, about hiking her already super short skirt up higher?

If his wife knew what was good for her, she'd dump his ass.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:08 am:   

Or maybe Carmen's the same way and they don't care?
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StephenB
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:24 am:   

I wish someone on that show had the balls to stand up to him and tell him like he is..
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:28 am:   

Then it wouldn't be such a fine cultural telltale... :-)
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 11:32 am:   

Do you mean Daphna's parting shot that her mama "raised her right"? :-)

Oh, and it's hardly likely that a woman who had a 15-minute mini-marriage to Dennis Rodman and markets a line of "aerobic stripping" DVDs is going to wax wrathful about hubby playing footsie on TV with some wannabe rock chicks...
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 11:43 am:   

Yep, that's what I meant.

Not to mention, she's the host of Bucket's favorite show, naked model wrestling. :-)
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T Andrews
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:22 pm:   

Dave, you missed Brooke's best outfit, yet!!

Stephen: commenting without a straight face is the only way.

Tonight is the elimination, Stephen, when we get to hear the worst of them butcher crappy songs.
Hey. It's entertainment. :-)

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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:41 pm:   

T, can you sort of describe what Brooke was wearing? It's been a slow day at the office.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 01:51 pm:   

A very, very shory metallic gray skirt.....
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:09 pm:   

Damn these networks for doing away with reruns!
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T Andrews
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:26 pm:   

Skirt, Lucius? Hmmm...I would describe it as a pair of panties with delusions of grandeur, or a gladitorial dress uniform as designed by Elvira.
It was hard to take your eyes off of.
She looked a little embare-assed, actually. Forgive the pun.

Lucius, Abi part II was quite a ride. Some of those images are going to be stuck in my brain forever. Wicked story.
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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:28 pm:   

Speaking of images stuck in my brain forever...:-)
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T Andrews
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 02:36 pm:   

Here ya go, Dave:

http://www.realitytvmagazine.com/blog/


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Dave G.
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 04:47 pm:   

Great googa mooga! :-)
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:24 pm:   

Glad you liked it, T...

gladiatorial skirt designed by Elivira...

That about nails it.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 06:49 pm:   

Yeah, I know you guy's aren't straight faced at all. In full mock mode. I was just being, I dunno... it was my mood.

We'll see, later tonight...
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:30 pm:   

By the way, I read Scalehunter's Beautiful Daughter. I'd place it among the better stories in the collection. Certainly one of the more imaginative.
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 07:34 pm:   

Cool, Stephen

Get ready to mock...
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:08 pm:   

I see they covered up Brook tonight.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:31 pm:   

I notice none of the would be singers have any rhythm, really. You'd think it'd help.

So do you think they'll try to keep the cute girls around for a while?
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:35 pm:   

They got rid of my girl, Heather, so I don't care. The consensus is, Marty's got it.
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Stephen
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 09:46 pm:   

The guy bobbin' his head with a grin, like a tool?

So, they'll probably keep Marty and the cute girls 'till the end...
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Lucius
Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2005 - 10:03 pm:   

Yeah, or maybe they'll keep Tai...
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:57 am:   

yeah, i got to say, from the limited exposure of the show i've had, i reckon it's marty. if you place him next to the other members of the band, he kind of fits in.

(and if he grew a poofy little strip of a mustache, why, he'd be right there.)
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:18 am:   

The only other possibility is Mig, whom all the band seem sexually atracted to, othewise he's be gone... Navarro keeps telling him to show more skin.

I never listened to INXS before, but after hearing their songs, which are the most nondescript crap ever, I can't imagine how they made it.
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 06:36 am:   

Mig is the australian, right? that might work with the band, though they've never been too concerned with maintaining a local image. which is fair enough--they've never had enough pub rock in them to play pub culture here, which is how older bands like them have stuck round. (if you ever hear an australian say, 'i have this cold chisel album you should listen too,' you should beat them straight away.)

i got no idea how INXS made it. but i did hear a good cover of their song 'don't change' by a local act called grinspoon. but it doesn't sound much like the original at all, i reckon.

do you ever remember a band called icehouse? when i was a kid, i used to forever confuse them and INXS since i thought they sounded the same.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:45 am:   

Mig;s the guy who played a rock singer on the London stage...

Don't recall icehouse. It;s funny, I've liked a lot of Kiwi bands, but not many aussie bands. Beasts of Bourbon were pretty cool....
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:45 am:   

Hutchence is why they made it. At least he could move to the music half decently. Along with the studio glossed sound. But yeah, INXSux. The other band that plays on the show's better. They should call themselves, INXS of Awful Studio Bands.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:47 am:   

I see they sent Brandon home, so the band's flirtation with barefoot Phish fans and smoke-shrouded jamband funfests is blissfully over.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 08:55 am:   

They shoulda sent Tara home as well. She murdered Come as You Are! And whatever that piece of shit was she sang last night, she didn't do any better.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:41 am:   

It was Jessica who murdered CAYA.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:57 am:   

Okay, Jessica. Send her ass home.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:14 am:   

But she has a pretty face...:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:23 am:   

Keep it on the show, but send her ass home. Little punk primitivism couldn't hurt.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:26 am:   

Ah, I was joking. Send her ass and her face home.:-) They all suck.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:31 am:   

And you know the argument that some of these people are actually talented and have good voices? Well that may be, but if that's the case, then they're wasting their talent. I don't care how strong their voice is, after all's said and done and they win the silly contest, they're still going to be a part of shitty music.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:48 am:   

They'll get some money and mileage out of it. Maybe they'll get laid steady for a while....

Nothing to sneeze at...
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 11:58 am:   

It's good publicity. I wonder how many people bought Heather's album based on her appearances on Rock Star.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:08 pm:   

I wonder how many people won't buy her album based on her appearance on Rock Star?

They're looking for quick personal gains and instant fame. They don't care about making good music.
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:18 pm:   

I don't think people won't buy it due to Rock Star. That sort of people weren't buying it before, so Rock Star won't change that. But it will bring her to the attention of other people who may buy (I'm a little tempted).

I'd do something like Rock Star if it meant more people would buy my music.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:23 pm:   

Not me, man. I wouldn't get into something like music or writing if it was just for the money. Wouldn't you care who's buying your music?
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   

Would you blow a CEO to get a big record deal?:-)
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:31 pm:   

I wouldn't care. I'll make the music I want to make regardless of who's buying. If more people buy it, it means it's easier to get the next CD made, and the next CD will still be the music I want to make (rather than what anybody else thinks I should make).
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:42 pm:   

Hey, a musician's gotta eat. Just like a writer, etc. But..

Robert, if you really wanted to make the music you want to make, then appearing on shows like Cock Star INXS is the wrong way to go about it. Unless you want to make shitty music.

If I still had my band and we became professional. We'd be doing it the oldfashioned way. Playing local gigs and hopefully developing an audience or fan base. Then you start touring and playing other local scenes. It's not an easy thing to do and become successful at. If you want to make easy money then you'd be better off doing something else.

If you do it because you love it and you don't have to be a slave to some lame-ass job, etc, then does it matter if you get rich?
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:46 pm:   

That wouldn't care is for who's buying, not blowing someone.

I do have a different view of music than many musicians I know. They are adamant about not compromising their musical vision. They don't want to bend towards a mainstream sound. I look at it differently. I want to make the mainstream sound of a project bend towards me.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:49 pm:   

What do you play?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:50 pm:   

Heather has an album? Where? :-)
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:52 pm:   

No, say it ain't so Lucius!:-)
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:53 pm:   

Robert, if you really wanted to make the music you want to make, then appearing on shows like Cock Star INXS is the wrong way to go about it. Unless you want to make shitty music.

I think my point is being misunderstood or I'm not making it well. Look at it this way. I make a CD that nobody knows about. I go on a shitty show. What I do on the show doesn't necessarily reflect what is on my CD. Because of the show, suddenly people know my name. A few of them might buy my CD and like it.
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 12:56 pm:   

Lucius: http://www.heathergrrrl.com/

Stephen: Umm, experimental music? Soundtrack to Jeff V's book
http://www.robertdevereux.com/discography.php?cd=fungicide
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:01 pm:   

Stephen, I like those bluesy southern vibes/

Thanks Robert.....
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:04 pm:   

BTW, there's no such thing as bad publicity. If I were to kill, say, Orson Scott Card, bet I'd make the cover of Locus... :-)

This not to suggest, by the by, I have anything but good will toward Scott.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:07 pm:   

I didn't know Jeff's book had a soundtrack.:-)

There's no samples on Heather's site, but I'm going to assume her music sucks.

I guess what I'm getting at, Robert, is integrity. If you really think your music's good, then you're too good for that show. Why should I think you're music's any better otherwise?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:16 pm:   

Do you see any of these people viewing a gig with INXS as a goal? Fuck no! I bet they all see it as a stepping stone.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:17 pm:   

It's always possible that someone making good music might do a show like RSINXS for the exposure. But a) someone whose dossier shows really uncompromising, personal stuff would probably never survive the audition for the show; and b) people looking for that particular type of music generally wouldn't shop for it on reality TV. So there's an awful lot of disconnect.

But, hey, you never know. I mean, the Beatles and the Doors were on Ed Sullivan, right alongside Topo Gigio and Senor Wences, so who knows? Maybe Butterfly Girl has some good tunes.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:20 pm:   

Lucius: Okay, you may like her sound. It just strikes me as hypocritical, though, considering some of your comments about music.

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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:22 pm:   

I didn't know Jeff's book had a soundtrack

And that's the problem. I like my music. But unless people know it exists, nobody can know whether they like it or not. After trying to get good publicity and largely being overlooked for being too uncommercial, I'd be OK with "bad publicity". Even the bad publicity would let more people know my music exists.

And see, even suggesting I'd go on a show like that is paying off. You wouldn't know about my CD if I hadn't brought it up.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:22 pm:   

Do you see any of these people viewing a gig with INXS as a goal? Fuck no! I bet they all see it as a stepping stone.

Of course, Lucius. So? I have no respect for them. I think that's one of the problems in our modern world. Greed. And the fact that many people will do whatever it takes to get ahead.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:25 pm:   

But, hey, you never know. I mean, the Beatles and the Doors were on Ed Sullivan, right alongside Topo Gigio and Senor Wences, so who knows? Maybe Butterfly Girl has some good tunes.

Yeah and what did Jim Morrison do on the Ed Sullivan show? What was he saying?

I wish someone had the balls to do something like that on INXS.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:27 pm:   

And Ed Sullivan was a variety show with professional bands, anyway. Not a singing contest. Not the same thing.

Star Search would be a more accurate equivlant. Britney Spears got her start on Star Search...
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:34 pm:   

I'm listening to Bleach, now...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 01:45 pm:   

I don't you were even watching the show when Heather was on, Stephen. And how does liking bluesy southern female vocals make me a hypocrite?
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:04 pm:   

I'm not saying you're a hypocrite. But it would seem to me, somewhat hypocritical to go out and buy her album. 'Cause like it or not, whether she's talented or not, as soon as she stepped on that show, she became corporate. She sold herself. She made a choice and I'm saying she made the wrong one. Rock Star INXS and American Idol are an opitome of corporate music. At least American Idol makes no pretense of being anything other than manufactured pop music.

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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:05 pm:   

That should be epitome, not opitome...
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:06 pm:   

And yes, I never watched Heather.
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:19 pm:   

Stephen, my point is that we often find gems in the gutter. It's certainly not outside the realm of possibility that one of the folks on that tacky show could make a passably good record.

I get tired of the "corporate" argument. Some of the best artists in the history of music have been somebody's corporate asset. Does that make them invalid? And busking on a street corner to keep your cred doesn't make you good. Everybody deserves the right to be judged on content, not a label they earn by their manner of promotion.

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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:30 pm:   

Hey, Dave. I was the one arguing that. Music being judged for what it is. Not how popular it becomes. Lucius takes the adament anti-corporate stance. I respected that and agree that most corporate music sucks and has been the ruin of many a band. But whatever. Buy her CD's. Listen to what you want...

Do you really see her as a diamond in the ruff? Is she really that good? I'd like to hear a sample of her music and decide for myself.
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StephenB
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:38 pm:   

And who said anything about busking on a street corner? This is rock music we're talkin' about. You get some friends together. Jam in a basement or a garage. See what happens, what you can create. Try to get gigs. And so on...

Or you can write your own shit and audition other musicians to play.

There's lots of ways to do it.

Lots of paths you can follow...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:38 pm:   

She did a hell of a Somebody to Love.

As far as the corporate angle, her allbum was recorded prior to the show -- I wouldn't be interested in her in an overproduced setting.

And Dave, you know damn well the corporate thing used to be different. There was no indie. If Bob Dylan were starting today, you really think he;d get picked up by a major label.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:40 pm:   

And oh yeah I never said I was gonna buy the damn thing...
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Dave G.
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:51 pm:   

I know what you're saying. But nowadays, it's all so fuzzy. Cool indies sell out and become corporate subs; mega conglomerates form cool-seeming "indie" subs to fake out the consumer...How indie is indie? It's a slippery slope.

Maybe we just need a better way to describe bad music than "corporate". How about "prefab"?
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 02:57 pm:   

Oh, yeah. Now indie is barely happening. Which I why I'm listening to a lot of foriegn stuff and some indie stuff like Jon Langford and Johnny Dowd, and lotta jazz, and like that.

I mean, who do you listen to on the corporate labels who's a relatively new artist?
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:01 pm:   

Yeah, you were joking, I think.

The album may have been released just prior to the show. But I'm suspect of any rock musician who would try to get on a show like that, anyway.



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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:05 pm:   

Stephen, I think it's pretty hard to be as free of greed as you hope musicians to be.
The odds are so against musicians making it big--or big enough to do it full time. Just like being a full-time writer, I would think.

I think an artist can compromise somewhat before they're compromising their integrity.

Heather was cool as shit and if the exposure keeps her from waiting tables 60 hours a week, then power to her. Whatever helps her get her thing goin'.

But in an Ideal world, I essentially agree with you, Stephen.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:12 pm:   

Okay, maybe she's cool shit and better than the rest, just trying to get her career going. I guess when we talk in absolutes that leaves little room for exceptions...

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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:27 pm:   

To add to that, though. I can't blame her for looking out for numero uno. We all do at times. It's human nature. That's how we're taught to be. But if we ever want to live in a more ideal world. It starts with yourself. We have to get beyond all that. It's going to take people not just going along with the way things are. Then maybe enough people will get that and say fuck it to the way things are.

Hopefully people like us are just ahead of our time and down the road things will get better... But hopefully is the key word there.

People who just sit back and wait for things to get better. Wait for 2012 to come around. Aren't really helping.

In a sense, Heather, by making her choice, which may very well be good for her, has picked her side to be on...
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:40 pm:   

But then who am I to say. I want to write fiction. I don't have any delusions about changing the world through fiction. However you want to look at it, art or not, any type of art -- fiction, poetry, music, painting, etc, is somewhat selfish.
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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:46 pm:   

Stephen, I don't take it as seriously as you, I guess.
My husband's band has great originals, but if they want to consistently gig, and gig at more than one seedy joint, they need to know some popular (not 'pop'ular) covers.
They got day jobs. Diapers to pay for. Not everyone can afford the time or money to pedal demos all day. Does that make them posers?
Are they sell-outs? Their originals are strong, southern blues-rock that's worth listening to. But if they are playing to a crowded bar, the girls like dancing to songs they know; the guys like buying said girls drinks; the bar likes to serve them. Then maybe they start slipping more originals into their sets, and less AC/DC. The wheel goes 'round...

It's only rock 'n roll.

Being an artistic purist doesn't feed the starving orphans in Africa or rebuild the ozone layer, anyway.


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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:48 pm:   

I missed your last post, Stephen. :-)
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Robert
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:50 pm:   

Stephen: I found this mp3 of Heather's performance on Rock Star
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=18S1LSUK
I have no clue what her music sounds like, but she can sing, and is the only one on Rock Star that I'd be interested in hearing a second time.

How indie is indie? It's a slippery slope.

This is something I've been wondering. When I look at the so-called "indie" magazines, they're almost all the same. They all have the same bands saying the same things at the same time. The only difference I see between Spin and most of the indie magazines is the names of the bands covered in them. Britney or Bright Eyes, Coldplay or...actually Coldplay. Maybe there's less difference than I thought.

I haven't found any print magazines that strike me as being anything other than generic, and too many have reviews that seem to be driven by advertisers. I have to go to increasingly more obscure websites if I want to find real indie stuff.

But that really means little. I enjoy a lot of corporate stuff, and there are plenty of bad indie bands.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:52 pm:   

That;s not what Sting and Bono said. :-)

Southern blue-rock in Canadia? Not exactly coals to Newcastle, huh? Yeah, I know the drill. I remember playing down in Ohio with an all-original band and having to work out covers in the men's room on break, cause the people couldn't dance to our stuff.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 03:58 pm:   

Robert, there's no longer anything like Forced Exposure, because the indie thing has been co-opted, but indie bands persist, like Seattle's Sun City Girls who may be inclined to play music or, as happemed when last I saw them, insisted on reading aloud from a Theodore Drieser novel and diving golf balls into the audience. Decidedly non commercial. :-)
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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:08 pm:   

Lucius, I guess it should be called Northern-Southern-blues-rock, up here. :-)
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:13 pm:   

Yeah, T, that's partly why I don't want any kids in my near future. I wouldn't want to be tied down both financially and time wise.

With my band we never got that far. Played one little gig. We were pretty much only doing our own original stuff, which I think was actually pretty decent.

Robert, the link doesn't work but whatever.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:15 pm:   

Proof Heather is cool.

Luttrell has no ambition to sign with a major label: "I'm more of an indie label gal. I'm solo acoustic. I love touring me, my dog and my guitar."

Yeah, T, unless you're talking southern Canadian. :-)
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:25 pm:   

She may be cool, but if she's a solo acoustic, then she's not really rock...

We did you go on that show?!

Anyone like Annie DiFranco?
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:32 pm:   

And since when is a press release of an Idol competition proof of being cool?:-) That's the image she's selling.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:33 pm:   

Stephen, she's got a band called the Hungover, she likes doing acoustic, there are lot of people who go more than one way....
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:35 pm:   

That was a clip from her hometown paper in Americus, GA
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:38 pm:   

What would you accept as proof? A photo of Heather desiccated body in her coffin following a life of poverty and ecoterrorism?
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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:44 pm:   

lol... I think you're both at the 'agree-to-disagree' stage.

So, here's a question: am I the only one who kept seeing a super-imposed vision of Bruce Campbell as Elvis in Bubba Ho-tep every time Brandon Calhoun had camera time?
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 04:52 pm:   

lol
Hey, man, I'm not sold on her yet. I haven't made up my mind about her and I've never seen her perform. But it's really easy for me to place her on the same level as a certain southern gent going by the name of Clay Aiken. Is he cool?:-) Okay, that's not fair...

One thing that would help convince me, is NOT appearing on Rock Star INXS...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 05:04 pm:   

Now that you mention it, he was sorta channeling Bruce.

Re; Heather. I',m not trying to sell you, I like her. Like I said, she reminds me of Sanie, a woman I knew in Seattle, and she's got cooler tats than Clay, and she sings a helluva lot better.
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 05:11 pm:   

Lucius has a crush on Heather. Oooh.:-)

I know, man.
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T Andrews
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 05:15 pm:   

Clay had a full time job teaching children with learning, and-or physical disabilities before he went for the idol gig.
An idealist of sorts, wouldn't you say, Stephen? hehehe...
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Stephen
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 05:19 pm:   

Ahh, how sweet.:-) I take back everything I said about him...(yeah right).

I've heard he's quite popular with grannies...
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 05:20 pm:   

To quote myself:

"...Dixie cup bourbon, rebel yell.
she's chicken lickin', fried in hell,
just gimme that southern belle..."
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 06:16 pm:   

beasts of bourbon are cool. they're still round, every now and then. they got a live show going tonight in sydney that was going to go too, but am not due to various things.

the guy who fronts beasts is tex perkins, who also fronts the cruel sea and does his own solo stuff (though the second of those albums was under tex perkins' dark horses). it's nicely varied. reckon he's one of the best things australian music has going.

aus music, though, has definately shown a lot more strength recently, but it just might be my perception. it's all in your milage.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 06:31 pm:   

The cruel sea, yeah, that's right. Glad to hear the beasts are still happening.

Do you get many NZ bands over there?
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PM
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 07:23 pm:   

To quote myself:

"...Dixie cup bourbon, rebel yell.
she's chicken lickin', fried in hell,
just gimme that southern belle..." ---Lucius

She sounds tasty but beware the vegan batter :-)
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:10 pm:   

there's some NZ bands, but since a lot of the sound is indistinquishable from the overseas noise (by this i mean there's nothing to say 'hey,t hat sounds like something from new zealand') it's hard to tell how much unless you follow it. i never really followed the scene over there so i'm not the best to ask for it.
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Lucius
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:21 pm:   

No, I'm pretty up on it, I just wondered if NZ bands played much in Austrailia. There are great NZ bands; The clean, the renderers, tall dwarf, the JPS experience, Hasslehoff. etc...
I owned pretty much the entire Flying Nun catalogue....
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ben peek
Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2005 - 09:40 pm:   

nah, they don't play here a lot as far as i've noticed. (there's not a lot of new zealand stuff at all that comes here. you get a movie every now and then, like WHALE RIDER and ONCE WERE WARRIORS, and a few books, but it's all the stuff that crosses over a lot.)

i'll keep an eye out for the bands, though. might be i've just never stopped and noticed before.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:36 am:   

Lucius, I have to acknowledge the shout-out to Forced Exposure. Best rock mag that ever was.

Last word on Heather Luttrell. If you stop and think about it, the fact that we all spent so much energy discussing her is probably evidence that she made the right choice about being on tv. Would any of us have found out about the Hungover otherwise?
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:50 am:   

Absolutely, Heather is well off the show, but she did good.

Forced Exposure was awesome, and now it's awesome website. Have you been there? They have amazing stuff.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 06:54 am:   

Ben, That seems weird to me that there's so little cross over beween NZ and Australia in music. I've got some very odd abo rap in my collection.....
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 07:27 am:   

I have seen the site. I keep meaning to buy some stuff from Byron and Jimmy, but somehow I never get around to it. It's the only source in America for music by the band Rothko, who I've been combing the earth for...
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 08:00 am:   

It has mysterious stuff. One of the best records I ever bought there was the refried Southern version of the Sun Ra Arkestra,,,,
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Robert
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 08:09 am:   

I've gotten some stuff from Forced Exposure. Too bad it was only a website by the time I discovered it.

Dave, have you tried Aquarius?
http://www.aquariusrecords.org/
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 08:39 am:   

No, but I will check it out!
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 09:11 am:   

Curse you, robert! :-)

Can you recommend some metal/post-rock off the Acquarius site? Isis? Pelican? Baroness?
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Robert
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 09:27 am:   

I don't know Baroness, but Isis is good. Panopticon is better than Occeanic, but both are good. Pelican is good in small doses, but the full album wears thin.

I just got Miasma & the Carousel of Headless Horses. They're sort of Eastern European/film score influenced instrumental rock.

Maybe Ephel Duath. They do a weird extreme metal and jazz blending.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 10:07 am:   

Thanks....

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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 10:27 am:   

Ephel Duath may be just the thing for someone who dislikes the Beatles, since their name is an anagram for "U hated 'Help!''
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 10:31 am:   

Then they're for me!

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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:15 am:   

You guys should check out Joanna Newsom. She's a really odd and talented musician/singer. She plays the harp, not something I would normally listen to but her music's really good.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:33 am:   

Newsomes like Cat Power for me -- I can't get past the voice...
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:40 am:   

Yes, she has an odd voice, but she's talented and her voice can be really affecting, I think. Although, at times she may sound a little too orphan Annie...:-)
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:49 am:   

More like....like a little old lady/girl

She writes good lyric and plays good, but hat voice...!
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 11:56 am:   

See, that's what I like about it. How she sounds so childlike and old at the same time...
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:09 pm:   

To each his own....

Whee! I've found a new way to spend money. Aquarius records.
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:17 pm:   

I wouldn't even say that. It's not the type of music I normally listen to. Just some weird shit I heard high.

D'ya like Bjork? I see her as kinda Bjorkish.
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:21 pm:   

Have you heard Led Belly? Now there's an odd, affecting and powerful voice...
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:24 pm:   

It's Leadbelly... I think
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:28 pm:   

Leadbelly? The old blues guy who wrote Happy Birthday?

Yeah, I like me some Bjork, but she doesn't do a Bjork thing for me....
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:34 pm:   

Yeah, the old blues guy. Not sure about Happy Birthday, though.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:51 pm:   

Little known fact....He wrote it.
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 12:58 pm:   

Wait a minute...I WROTE HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!

My anagram analysis says avoid Newsom: Joe! No swan, man...
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GabrielM
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 01:09 pm:   

I think the best stuff off Aquarius is actually that Ta Det Lungt record from Dungen. Sixties style psychedelic rock, sung entirely in Swedish and with all the instruments played by one guy. I have no idea what the fellow's singing about but the music is great.
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 01:25 pm:   

Thanks, Gabe...
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Stephen
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 01:47 pm:   

Newsom may not be all that great, but she's a better alternative to a lot of popular music out there right now. I don't think I'd go out and seek out her music, but I didn't mind it.

Sounds like you guys have found a good source for some good music alternative's out there...
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Lucius
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 02:01 pm:   

New Thread Below
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Dave G.
Posted on Friday, August 12, 2005 - 02:14 pm:   

Sorry, all I get from Ta Det Lungt is "glutted ant." No real clear direction pro or con there.

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